What It Takes to Be An Entrepreneur and Are You Born One or Can You Learn to Be One with Amer Akhtar CEO of Celential AI | EP. 79 | Business Podcast
Summary
Amer is an entrepreneur, former management at Yahoo, venture capitalist and currently CEO of a Celential AI, an artificial intelligence platform for recruiting located in Silicon Valley.
Amer and talk about what it takes to be an entrepreneur, what he calls reluctant entrepreneurs and does it take being born one or can you learn it.
Listen and see what you think.
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Brandon:
Hello, friends. Welcome to the show. Today we are talking with Amor actor, who is the CEO of Selenium AI, which is an ai driven recruiting company here in Silicon Valley. But we’re actually not going to talk about his company. Not that much.
Brandon:
I invited armored onto the show today to talk about what it takes to be an entrepreneur. And are you just born an entrepreneur or can you learn it?
Brandon:
I’m and I have been friends for a long time.
Brandon:
He served on the board of one of my companies for many years.
Brandon:
We used to do Thursday dinners in what? I guess you could call an entrepreneur support group. Hammer has a bunch of kids and a great wife, and every Thursday would invite different people over from in and around Silicon Valley here, and we would all talk and share stories and uh, really was a lot of fun.
Brandon:
So Covid sort of put a squash on that and looking forward to making that happen. But, um, er is a really interesting person.
Brandon:
Career wise, he started out in the corporate world working for a D. P and really was an entrepreneur within a large company that I think a lot of people forget that that actually can happen and happens.
Brandon:
Armor started his career at ADP and shortly after joining was given the opportunity to go build a whole new division of ADP in all places.
Brandon:
China.
Brandon:
Now building a new division of a company really is like building a company from scratch and building one in China is super hard.
Brandon:
Armor took that company from zero to 20 million in less than three years and started with him in a handful of people that went with them from a D.
Brandon:
P to do this to about 400.
Brandon:
And then he’s worked at venture capital firms. He was the president of Yahoo’s small business for a long time and most recently is at the start up that just raised $9 million.
Brandon:
Uh, you’ll hear he is a humble guy who sort of says it nonchalantly, and he brings all this experience to drop in with the casual conversation with me about what it takes to be an entrepreneur.
Brandon:
And are people born an entrepreneur or can you teach someone?
Brandon:
And can someone learn how to be one?
Brandon:
Welcome to build a business success secrets. The only podcast that provides straight talk for entrepreneurs. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, starting with an idea or growing your business, this show is for you. We’ll teach you how to build a strong mindset, powerful body and profitable business so you can achieve success. And here’s your host, Brandon. See white, uh, including converted notes about 9.5.
Brandon:
Wow.
Amer:
So you got it done.
Brandon:
Yeah, I did.
Amer:
I did. Congratulations. That’s a big milestone, right?
Brandon:
Yeah. There’s a lot of works and I’m ramping up sales, hiring, marketing, all that jazz pain in the ass.
Amer:
I spent most of my day talking to candidates and recruiters.
Amer:
You like it?
Amer:
That’s what CEOs do.
Brandon:
Well, I guess I’m learning. That’s what CEOs to start up CEOs do you start up.
Amer:
CEOs do everything.
Brandon:
Yeah, I know.
Amer:
I have had to do everything from from moving office furniture to cleaning up the office once we give it up to ordering, you know, going to Costco, picking up fruit for the office.
Amer:
Back in the day when we had one, I thought you just as CEO just get your name in the press and look really important.
Amer:
And get quoted.
Brandon:
Yeah.
Brandon:
Is that what this is going to be about? This is gonna be This is about I’m interested to hear.
Amer:
Well, I thought it was gonna be I wanted to hear your thoughts on if entrepreneurship was learned.
Brandon:
Or or you could teach it from two of us who have been DCs entrepreneurs and went to business school.
Brandon:
Right.
Brandon:
Um, if that helped, I’m not quite sure yet.
Brandon:
The and then But you had something to talk about about reluctant entrepreneurs, which I was interested to hear more about.
Brandon:
Yeah.
Brandon:
What is that?
Brandon:
So reluctant entrepreneur, I think, is a Silicon Valley phenomenon.
Brandon:
So you know how so you brought a business school, so I I speak to a lot of mentor a lot of young NBA grads who call and say, Hey, how do I get to be CEO?
Brandon:
And what did you do to get there?
Brandon:
And half the time, I think these guys aren’t going to be CEOs.
Brandon:
They’re somewhat reluctant CEOs because that’s what NBA school teaches you.
Amer:
You pay, you know, 8200 grand a year for a couple of years.
Amer:
And what they tell you is look up all these case studies we’re gonna give you about C E O s.
Amer:
And Yeah, you need to know how to manage a P and l you need to be a CEO.
Amer:
So that’s what’s in your brain.
Amer:
24 7 for two years.
Amer:
And, uh, NBA guys and gals, they want to come out and become CEO.
Amer:
So So it’s like, it’s good in a way, because it teaches you to, you know, be thinking about your future.
Amer:
And that’s what NBA school teaches you to be a CEO.
Amer:
So Silicon Valley to me is similar.
Amer:
You come here and you know, you hear about all these fabulous, uh, stacks and I, P.
Amer:
O.
Amer:
S. And billionaires and, you know, young kids making millions of stock options. And you know you want to be an entrepreneur, you want to cash out, and all of a sudden you know 10 to 15,000 shares aren’t enough. You want to have 30% of the company and 20% 1 goes public, and it’s looking around you and seeing yourself surrounded by these people and wanting to be an entrepreneur.
Amer:
But you’re a reluctant entrepreneur because you don’t have that, and this goes back to whether you’re born with it or you get trained with it.
Amer:
Cutting to the chase.
Amer:
I think there’s an element of both, but the born with it winds. So you have to have that fire in your belly. You have to have the knowing how to make quick decisions based on your gut, living with the consequences.
Amer:
You can train some of that, but you can’t train a lot of it. The instincts You can’t train, so so there’s people that don’t have it.
Amer:
There aren’t born entrepreneurs, but they want to be entrepreneurs and they try to be an entrepreneur. But they’re reluctant entrepreneur because the whole risk reward thing isn’t is pulling at them, you know, is trying to get them to take less risk when you have to take more managed risk as an entrepreneur.
Amer:
So that’s why that’s what I call reluctant entrepreneur. This is something that a friend of mine, I’m an advisor to him, Um, you know, he kind of think coined that term, so it’s not my term, but I’ve been thinking about it over the years, as I have seen more and more reluctant entrepreneurs.
Amer:
So you think they’re well I I don’t know.
Amer:
So I can only talk.
Amer:
You and I both have top NBA s, right?
Amer:
So I think it’s fair to say that throughout the all these top programs and maybe all of them, I don’t know.
Brandon:
But nonetheless, I don’t think they ever taught me or ingrained in me.
Brandon:
And maybe it’s changed because I’m open when I graduate. 2005. I don’t know. When you graduated, um, is it was Well, I did a master’s in between Another master’s in between there. What sort of got me derailed, But and then I started a company. But the I think that that they taught what I my experience was is they really wanted you to teach you how to be a manager.
Brandon:
Now, whether that manager is considered a mini CEO of a P and l, that was for sure.
Brandon:
They wanted you to be able to go into a big corporation.
Brandon:
And I think that’s really where they make their money, right?
Brandon:
Not there’s not a lot of NBS programs out there that say, Hey, come here and you’re gonna spit out an entrepreneur.
Brandon:
I mean, they market that somewhat, but where they really make their money because at the end of the day, it’s the master’s programs that these universities pretty much cash in is they’re like, Hey, come here, you’re going to be a super manager.
Brandon:
We’re going to teach you how to do this P and L program.
Brandon:
And I only say that not because I didn’t learn a lot and spending all the money I did, but mainly because I came out of there saying, Okay, this was interesting.
Brandon:
I definitely have a check box.
Brandon:
I have a great network. I had a great experience. Did I learn more about spreadsheets? I don’t know. I probably learned more about spreadsheets in marketing analysis at America Online and being a VC necessarily than I did in business school. But, um, I did learn a bunch of core element things that I probably wouldn’t have gotten anywhere else.
Brandon:
Um, so that’s what I offer you like.
Brandon:
Do you mean that when you say they teach us, taught us how to be a CEO?
Brandon:
Or do you think that’s the new thing that now entrepreneurism is like the new hot thing that everybody wants to be?
Brandon:
I think it’s a new hot thing and and And maybe I’ve been speaking to more recent NBA grads than you or I, uh, but they seem to be more interested in entrepreneurial activities and or getting to a point in their career where they’re not just managers, but running companies, whether they’re small companies or big companies.
Brandon:
So what do you think?
Brandon:
They’re attracted to those who do you think?
Amer:
There.
Amer:
So I want to, because this is an interesting you and I talked about it over the years.
Brandon:
Like, are they interested because they think that you’re gonna make a billion dollars and have a G five g six now? Or is it is it really that you create something that solves someone’s problems that they’re willing to pay you for?
Brandon:
And you get to make money and solve a problem at the same time, like do they actually do you think they actually understand this thing?
Brandon:
So I think some of it comes with age.
Brandon:
So I assume you’re talking about Are you talking about NBA people?
Brandon:
Are you talking about Well, there’s NBA people that are coming out of the NBA program, right?
Amer:
Like or or anyone in general, But let’s let’s stay with the NBA program.
Brandon:
They come out of the NBA.
Brandon:
Is it because, like, is it because they think that they’re going to get on the front of Forbes?
Brandon:
And is it the attention? Is it They just want to make money. Is it like, Are they under some pretense that it’s not what you and I know it is, Which is what you just said when we started, which is you have to take out the trash.
Brandon:
You just raised $9 million and you’re taking out the trash doing power points, hiring people, creating processes.
Brandon:
Uh, probably up until late at night because you answer my text late at night like like, do they? Do you think they actually understand that part of it?
Brandon:
No, I I don’t think they do. I think it’s all glamour. So I think what they see is the Airbnb I p o they see, you know, uh, Elon Musk. They have a vision of what? An entrepreneur and by extension, the CEO is the grind that I mean, you know this well, you’ve started a couple companies.
Amer:
I mean, the grind that I’ve seen you go through. I’ve been with you on on your V C meetings where you’re trying to pitch your vision to a V C.
Amer:
Who doesn’t get it because you don’t fit their box right and you come out and you’re like, You know what?
Amer:
That’s fine. You brush it off and you go and do something else that you take a less experienced person.
Amer:
You put him in that position and they’ll be like, you know, shocked or whatever, right?
Amer:
So I think they and that’s why I said, I think it comes with age like the You know, I’m an advisor to several companies, but a couple of the ones that stand out the entrepreneurs aren’t it for the money.
Amer:
In one case, the guy already has money.
Amer:
He’s cashed out his first company, but I am so impressed by how passionate he is about fixing a problem for an underserved population.
Amer:
That’s all he preaches about.
Amer:
And the money will come and it’s come for him, and his company has raised, you know, a significant amount of capital.
Amer:
But whenever you talk to him, it’s never about getting rich or being well known.
Amer:
He’s not going after the sandhill road VCs. He’s going after capital that shares his vision and that can that can solve the world problem that he’s going after.
Amer:
That is what a real entrepreneur, this passion and they understand. And I think this is what comes with experience is if you follow your passion and you fix the problem you’re going to fix, the money will follow.
Amer:
You don’t follow the money and then pick up a passion along the way. It doesn’t work that way. It can, I guess. But that’s not how it usually works. The best entrepreneurs I found are are so passionate.
Amer:
I’m talking to a couple of, uh, say Junior, I mean younger first time entrepreneurs now and and they’re raising seed money or have raised seed money.
Amer:
And I am just so impressed by how much research they’ve done into the problem they’re trying to solve in both these cases, By the way, I have decades of experience in this problem, But yet they came up with an angle to it, and they managed to raise money for it, and they’re young and they’re building their teams.
Amer:
And there, um you know, uh, seeing it go their way because there’s a There’s a luck plays a big part two, which we haven’t talked about.
Amer:
But in one of these, the regulations are making it easier for this one company to do well.
Amer:
So you know I love seeing that, right?
Amer:
Uh, are they doing the I mean, they get the grind because they are doing the grind, so they raise seed money.
Amer:
You know, they’re trying to figure out should they work from home or have an office space?
Amer:
You know, I’ve talked to one of them about Hey, what should I pay my first salesperson?
Amer:
I mean, that’s not a simple question and answer or for them to think about because, you know, they’re they’re not just going to hire one person.
Amer:
They’ve got to hire other people to.
Amer:
So they’ve got to think through how that impacts their cap table.
Amer:
All that. So, uh, that’s not taught at NBA schools.
Amer:
From what? So let me say something about passion, because I do not know that I actually agree that mhm.
Brandon:
Here’s what I’ve seen with people that I’ve helped is that if you follow your passion around one problem and it and it and it may be a problem, but it may not be a market for it, which is very different right there.
Brandon:
You can have a problem.
Brandon:
I mean, you know this from when I started that one company everybody wants to aggregate all your comes in one spot, but nobody will pay for it, right?
Brandon:
Everybody wanted it for free.
Brandon:
So here’s a problem.
Brandon:
That’s a huge problem.
Brandon:
But no, there was no market.
Brandon:
Now, if I was only passionate about that problem, then what happens is is that I’m not willing to change direction, to move the company in into another level.
Brandon:
And as I maybe, you know, I don’t know, maybe age gives you some luxury of of, uh, looking back. But I think at the end of the day, what I’m really passionate about is building things and solving problems. And I am not so tied to the actual problem, as I am passionate about figuring stuff out and how to build a business.
Brandon:
And I think that the entrepreneurs, whether they come out of business school or they’re just out of the blue that come into it and say, you know, I’m really passionate that, uh I don’t know.
Brandon:
I want to make dog straightening hair because my dog has curly hair and it and it tangles, right.
Brandon:
And then they find new market, and then they get discouraged, and then it’s over.
Brandon:
You see what I’m saying?
Brandon:
What do you think about that?
Brandon:
Uh so his passion is can be for different things.
Brandon:
It can be for a particular idea. It can be for, uh, starting something from scratch. It can be for, um, doing good, right? So So I I think along with passion, there’s passion.
Amer:
Alone is not enough, right?
Amer:
You have to have good instincts.
Amer:
Uh, you have to have good instincts to know when the idea you’re passionate about is not gonna work.
Amer:
So you stop putting good money after bad, and then you find another idea you’re passionate about.
Amer:
But passion is about building that thing that you’re talking about.
Amer:
That thing may change.
Amer:
So, going back to when we were both VCs, it’s so trite.
Amer:
But what did we say then? We invest in people, not the idea, because the idea can change right, And a good entrepreneur with good instincts, who’s a visionary.
Amer:
We’ll be able to adapt if the market throws them a curve ball.
Amer:
But a person who’s just passionate about that idea and that idea doesn’t work but doesn’t have the instincts to change will lose all the money right on the investment. So it goes back to having more than just passion.
Amer:
But I think that there’s this other thing. Maybe we don’t have the right word for it because I’m listening to you.
Brandon:
I’m like, Well, maybe I’m wrong because the passion if I look back, I don’t know whether it’s passion, armor or just stupidity or grit like I hate that word Grit.
Brandon:
I think it’s been overused, but you’ve got to have something that allows you to get through the nose.
Brandon:
Like how many nose did you have and raising your last round for this company?
Brandon:
20.
Brandon:
Well, at least right, because you called me and you’re like, Everybody keeps telling me now, and I was like, Yeah, that’s the way it works, right?
Brandon:
Um, so and I think Airbnb had something like 120.
Amer:
No. So So what do you call that?
Brandon:
I don’t And I don’t know why. That passion thing bothers me. I think it be. I think it be right.
Brandon:
I think it’s not the right word is it fire in the belly? Maybe it is. Is it energy?
Amer:
Right? It’s all those. It’s It’s, uh, uh, Grit is a good word for it.
Amer:
Right, Because you mean the best entrepreneurs.
Amer:
Just they don’t give up now they may give up on the idea. I know great entrepreneurs who thought up ideas and just found you filled really quick and moved on.
Amer:
Right?
Amer:
If they didn’t have great, they would just give up there like, Okay, I tried it. It didn’t work, but they had whatever you wanna call it.
Amer:
Fire in the belly. Passion, grit.
Amer:
But what is that, right? Like, do you think that something you’re born with, right?
Brandon:
That you can’t teach?
Amer:
You don’t think so?
Brandon:
No.
Brandon:
So let me ask you a lot of things you can teach, but you can’t.
Amer:
So let me ask you this because here’s this is semantics.
Brandon:
Maybe, but so if I’m gonna take myself because I want to speak for anybody.
Amer:
But if I look at myself, was I born with that?
Brandon:
Um here’s what I was born with.
Brandon:
I was born with dyslexia, so I struggled really hard.
Brandon:
Even to this day.
Brandon:
I memorize words.
Brandon:
In fact, when I study for a test, I memorized the page and I know on the page where it is.
Brandon:
And I read it back to myself.
Brandon:
And I taught myself that because the only I’m not I don’t even know if it’s the best way.
Brandon:
Candidly. It’s really hard, Um, but it’s the way that I got through right?
Brandon:
So that experience taught me that I just regularly never give up.
Brandon:
And then it probably created this thing where I always want to be the best and so that if I look back on, I try to analyze it.
Brandon:
Was I born with it or was it the experience?
Brandon:
So I I ask you like to someone just have to because I’ve held this back, but I’m gonna put it out there. Is it just street smarts like you just teach?
Brandon:
You know, street smarts go a long way. I mean, some of the best entrepreneurs I’ve ever met I’m like, I don’t even know if I can do that because they just have inexperience where they had to use street smarts.
Brandon:
And you just can’t teach that right, right?
Brandon:
I mean, by definition, you can’t write that’s versus book smarts.
Brandon:
But again, you know, I I opened this by saying, It’s both You’re born with some things.
Brandon:
You learn some things, but at the end of the day, what you’re born with, Trump’s what you learn.
Amer:
Like if you don’t have the things you’re born with. To be an entrepreneur, you’re not gonna on, generally speaking, be as successful.
Amer:
So So let’s say you know you’re born with street smarts.
Amer:
That alone is not sufficient to create a successful company and become an entrepreneur, because you and I know there’s many of the things you need to do.
Amer:
Like street smarts may not get me through a successful VC meeting. It may not attract the top salespeople to my company. It may not help me build a really highly engaged workforce.
Amer:
These are things you then learn, whether it’s business school or you learn through decade or two of working right.
Amer:
A good entrepreneur, uh, doesn’t succeed only because of the entrepreneur.
Amer:
Good entrepreneur knows who to hire.
Amer:
You know what smarter people to hire for different kinds of jobs that they’re not good for? They’ve got the idea. They’ve got great passion. Whatever you wanna call it fire in the belly. They’ve got street smarts, so you know their hustle.
Amer:
Um, but at the end of the day, you still need to be able to listen, to communicate, to negotiate, to structure, right?
Amer:
All that is learned.
Amer:
I see you’re not convinced.
Amer:
I don’t know.
Amer:
I actually think that this whole thing is an interesting topics.
Brandon:
When I called you and said, Hey, why don’t you talk about it?
Brandon:
Because I think it is. It’s something I’ve thought about too, right, Because you’re in the valley and you see it happening. I mean, where where it happens, Where NBA’s Com Street. Smart people come and both are successful in starting great companies.
Amer:
That’s what I mean, like, and this didn’t wasn’t meant to be.
Amer:
Should you do an MBA or not? I mean, I mean, I think you can do your like You just said, I don’t know what the data says because I looked at and I don’t know anybody who’s got the real data.
Brandon:
I mean, all the business schools are going to do the data that says if you go to business school, you’re going to make more money, right? Um, but you know, if you look at the all the successful entrepreneurs, Um, some of them dropped out.
Brandon:
Some of them didn’t go to school.
Brandon:
My one of my mentors barely graduated from college, Starts to companies, takes one public, and Warren Buffett buys it and takes it private. And he’s on the board. Like, you know, there’s all these these stories. I don’t know that there’s a path, but I I find it interesting to say, as you were talking, I was like, Well, what is it even not Webster’s dictionary?
Brandon:
But what’s what’s the real definition of an entrepreneur, right?
Brandon:
Somebody who comes up with an idea and and takes the risk and makes it happen and turns it turns an idea into a problem.
Brandon:
Um, yeah, I I just don’t I don’t know.
Brandon:
What I do know is that I can teach the basics, right?
Brandon:
Like, here’s how to build a spreadsheet.
Brandon:
Uh, here’s how you build a business plan.
Brandon:
Um, you know, I can’t teach that gut feeling thing that just comes from this other thing that we can’t describe.
Brandon:
So I just wonder, like, Can you make Can you Can you really teach the entrepreneur and if I want to boil it down to one thing armor Mhm.
Brandon:
It would be the one skill beyond the fact that you got to solve a problem that somebody’s willing to pay you for is to keep going even when you don’t believe you can keep going.
Brandon:
If that makes sense, really makes sense.
Brandon:
So that has, uh, in a related nothing, nothing to do with entrepreneurialism.
Brandon:
But, as you know, from following me on Strada.
Brandon:
Now I’ve become an ardent Berg rower, and I’m very I’m I’m excited for you for that to get some exercise and and eventually get get yourself on a bike with.
Brandon:
But But what I’ve learned is, and you know, I’m following this program, that 24 week program on week nine and I’m every week.
Brandon:
I’m finding new heights, and this is very strong community that supported me and helped.
Brandon:
But like yesterday I reached my highest heart rate ever on on this, and I thought I was literally if I get Rose.
Brandon:
I was 1 74 and and I thought if I did two more rows holes, I would pass out.
Brandon:
But I didn’t give up like I had you know, maybe 200 m left to go and I did it, and that was my highest rate.
Brandon:
So there’s many times I’ve thought I’ve given up during a row, but I’ve just, you know, maybe slowed my pace down a little, but finished it, And that, to me, is a wind.
Amer:
But But I think you’re right.
Amer:
Going back to entrepreneurial skills and what you are born with versus what you learn.
Amer:
That persistence that you’re talking about is critical, right?
Brandon:
And I I would lump that together.
Amer:
I’m not lumping together.
Amer:
It’s very different from street smarts, but, uh, I kind of tend to think of them going hand in hand, like someone who’s street smart is also persistent.
Amer:
I don’t know why.
Amer:
Maybe that’s just the kind of people I’ve run into.
Brandon:
But I think that that is very true, that you have to have that because you will hear the easiest thing.
Amer:
You know, when your V C.
Amer:
Is to tell someone.
Amer:
No, because it’s easy to say because U.
Amer:
S.
Amer:
A.
Amer:
B C.
Amer:
You might be lazy and don’t want to do the work to really figure out this is a good opportunity.
Amer:
They never tell you PC’s never tell, You know, the coast you keep in touch you, right?
Brandon:
Just in case your company takes a hop and they want to do the next round.
Amer:
Right?
Brandon:
Right. We could both write a book on that, but But I think, uh, you know, so going back to what an entrepreneur here is, they hear a lot of nose, right?
Amer:
Whether it’s from like Elon Musk in the early days. Right? I know this from folks who worked for him. Heard a lot of knows from suppliers, like, you know, why would I tell you? Aluminum? When Ford, who’s building a million F one fifties, I can sell them all my aluminum.
Amer:
Right.
Amer:
Um, so you know, when you’re trying to build a supply chain, when your startup, when you’re trying to secure funding when your startup, when you’re trying to just attract people to your company, when your startup, you’re gonna hear a lot of knows, even your friends, right?
Amer:
They project on you regularly. Like you can’t do that.
Brandon:
Yeah. Are you sure you want to do that right?
Amer:
I don’t know. I think I think they’re talking about themselves most of the time But I think that’s right.
Brandon:
That’s right. So that persistence, grit, whatever is is key, right?
Amer:
Mhm.
Amer:
I agree.
Amer:
The the one thing that you’re talking about, the ERG, which is Really, uh I was looking at my straw over here on my phone, which I shouldn’t be while I’m talking to you.
Amer:
But, um was it I think one thing that could be learned and that I do have been able to teach people and that you’re learning that you just explained is a really important thing.
Brandon:
And, you know, of all people who do it is the military does it actually quite well, um, is you have different levels of pain that your brain innately will try to stop you, right?
Brandon:
Your heart rate went to 1 76 and your brain said Amer, do not go any further because it’s always in preservation vote.
Brandon:
Yeah, but And had you not pushed through to what I call in my bike riding and anything that I do discover this next level is, if you had not done that, you actually probably take two steps backwards because you get scared, right?
Brandon:
I mean, it’s really it’s really the courage to go past things.
Brandon:
It’s not about not being scared, because I know what you’re talking about.
Brandon:
Uh, I I saw my monitor one time go to 205 This was years ago when I was racing, and I was like, I am probably going to die here any minute, like like, but as I I’m not gonna lose this wheel, I’m going to keep going.
Brandon:
And what I discovered is is that you can recover and you’re not gonna die.
Brandon:
And I probably learned to go through three phases.
Brandon:
The military, in many cases, basically brings people to the brink of death so that they can feel that Hey, the first wave of no is not true.
Brandon:
Second wave isn’t third wave start to get concerned.
Brandon:
Fourth, you probably die, right?
Brandon:
So I think that that I could teach that you’re learning that however you’re learning it on your own, um, by learning it through a community as well, like of teachers who have done it, who’ve been to the brink and said, Keep pushing.
Brandon:
You like teaching me right now like you.
Brandon:
You you just told me that you’ve done two or five.
Brandon:
No, no, no, no, no.
Brandon:
No, no.
Brandon:
So let me be very quick.
Brandon:
I haven’t seen 205 The last time I saw 205 was on.
Brandon:
It was called the Terrible two.
Amer:
It was 125 miles up in Napa.
Amer:
It was 125 degrees, and I probably was potentially having a heart attack.
Amer:
I don’t know, because it was so hot, but that was, like, four years ago.
Brandon:
My heart heart rate just for everyone listening here and YouTube, armor is individual, so there’s no everybody has their different thresholds.
Brandon:
You’ve got a, you know, tested.
Brandon:
I’m not suggesting to push it. Um, I just don’t want anybody listening this armor and be like, Oh, well, you can do 205 I’ve only gotten to 1 50 like my wife. My wife is like, That’s 1 60 ish. Uh, everybody has their individual stuff. But what I am suggesting is also that as you become more fit, your heart gets better.
Brandon:
Just like as an entrepreneur, you get more experience. You realize that you can go past, you know, there’s another level. Um, so I think part of it is I could teach that right.
Brandon:
One thing that I don’t I don’t know. But I think you and I have talked about It is it’s like, just keep going, right?
Brandon:
See what happens tomorrow and see what happens tomorrow.
Brandon:
See what happens if you keep going that extra 200 m, Do you pass out?
Brandon:
You know, if you pass out, then you realize that probably whatever 1 76 is your max.
Brandon:
But if you don’t, you never know.
Brandon:
Yeah, yeah.
Brandon:
I mean, that’s right.
Amer:
And I think it’s that’s really important for entrepreneurs, because it’s not.
Amer:
I mean, this is a long game, right? Like, uh, time you start something to where you’ve actually built enough scale where you’re seeing the fruits of it, whether their financial fruits or just feeling good about the goal you set, it’s not a 12 to your thing.
Amer:
What do you mean?
Amer:
I I thought you just got an idea, and you just whipped it up. And, uh, you got rich.
Brandon:
Yeah. And maybe that’s what m B. A s are learning in. In in school. That’s dangerous.
Amer:
Uh, you know, and maybe they need to hear about a lot of these failures that happened right, So because you you read about the successes. But you don’t read about the 1001 failures that, uh, you know, people go through where they mortgage their houses and they take a bet and it doesn’t work out.
Amer:
And then they go to a corporate job and disillusioned and you know, you need to hear all of that. Uh, but it is in that.
Amer:
Let’s say that in your first year you’ll hear more nose than you probably heard in my entire life.
Amer:
If you don’t keep pushing through, you know you’re always gonna fail if you don’t try.
Amer:
Like we, we know that. So a lot of that’s why that’s why I met earlier when I said reluctant entrepreneurs. There’s a lot of people who start companies who are thinking of starting companies who are talking themselves out of it like, Hey, I really want to do this. But yeah, you know, I don’t know if the market big enough or I don’t know if I’ll get fun. So they’re they’re failed before they’ve even started because they’re just full of negativity.
Amer:
Um, and then there’s those with grit and fire in the belly and street smarts are like, Yeah, I’m just gonna give it a shot, right.
Amer:
I’m gonna try this for a couple of years, see if this works and just even a couple of years, It’s great because you’ll learn so much in that couple of years.
Amer:
And, of course, luck plays a big role.
Amer:
And sometime in those two years, do you think luck plays a big role?
Brandon:
I think you can.
Amer:
I think.
Amer:
I think if you stay with it long enough, you get to a crossroads where luck end.
Brandon:
Luck happens because you continued.
Brandon:
But that what is luck, Brandon?
Brandon:
So I don’t know.
Amer:
Well, so let me let me throw something So some people would say luck is something that is outside your control.
Brandon:
That happens, right? Someone else does something or or, you know, for some, for some companies, like health care companies that were on the verge of dying, Covid was luck.
Amer:
Good luck for them, for, uh, you know, because it boosted their businesses.
Amer:
Um, but other people would say luck is nothing more than good decisions versus bad decisions.
Amer:
You make your luck.
Amer:
So there is no such thing as good luck.
Amer:
It’s a good decision that you made that got you on that path. And if you have made a bad decision, you would attribute that to bad luck.
Amer:
How much of luck is in your control?
Amer:
I don’t know.
Amer:
I think it’s a romantic, right? Like this whole world. Luck is, is something I don’t know.
Brandon:
It’s a really probably a whole of philosophical.
Brandon:
It is philosophical because you could say that.
Brandon:
You know, some young entrepreneurs start a company and it’s going nowhere.
Brandon:
And then there’s some structural change in the industry or a pandemic or something that basically turned that industry around.
Brandon:
And now your company is favored because of that.
Amer:
I think I don’t.
Amer:
I tend to not like the word luck, because I think it can get you off the hook for either being successful or not right like, Oh, that didn’t work out on her.
Brandon:
I just wasn’t lucky.
Brandon:
Well, I don’t know.
Brandon:
Did you try hard enough?
Brandon:
Yeah, that’s why I was getting too right.
Brandon:
Is it really luck, or is it a series of good or bad decisions that you make that determine and healthcare companies?
Brandon:
What were they lucky, or were they There won an event that benefited them just happened because they stuck it out and stayed there.
Brandon:
I don’t know.
Amer:
You can call it whatever you want, right?
Brandon:
But call it making a lot of money.
Brandon:
Um, some at some point.
Brandon:
The Yeah, it’s really It’s, uh but I think you got to keep going.
Brandon:
You said making a lot of money a couple of times.
Brandon:
Do you think all entrepreneurs are in it?
Brandon:
Well, here’s what I will say.
Brandon:
It’s probably subconscious because when you were talking about passion and I was listening to two students that I have and they were reading on their instagram the negative feedback they’ve gotten right and some of the negative feedback they sold their house, they’re traveling around the world, are in the world, the United States in an RV, and they’re chronically chronic.
Amer:
They’re they’re blogging about.
Brandon:
It is the best way to say it, and they are trying to make money.
Brandon:
Of course they are.
Brandon:
They’re trying to build a media company, and some of these comments were like, Oh, well, you guys are just trying to make money.
Brandon:
And I was listening to this last night, and one of the things I think that bothers me is what in God’s name is wrong with making a lot of money.
Brandon:
Like there’s this whole movement out there that says, Well, all these people are getting rich.
Brandon:
Okay, so what?
Brandon:
Good for them.
Brandon:
I’m excited about that.
Brandon:
Like there’s this.
Brandon:
There seems to be honored, this belief that it’s almost like we’re committing a sin.
Brandon:
This is now.
Brandon:
I’m not even talking about one religion because I don’t even I’m not one religion guy, but like Oh my God, Homer, you made money.
Brandon:
You’re a sinner.
Brandon:
No, you made my like.
Brandon:
It’s totally okay.
Brandon:
And if you want to go make a lot of money, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
Brandon:
Um, I think it’s a great reason to become an entrepreneur, that you want to make money to, either keep score on your own time.
Brandon:
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but but that Let me finish let you comment.
Brandon:
The that solely.
Brandon:
Building on something you said earlier may not be enough to get you through.
Brandon:
The 5000 knows the 2 a.m. The I don’t know whatever missing your kid’s soccer game might not get you through that.
Brandon:
Yeah, I think I definitely agree with you in the second part.
Brandon:
Actually, on the first part two, there’s nothing wrong with it.
Brandon:
Uh, I What I will say, though, is it depends what a lot of money is, right?
Brandon:
They will depend for different people.
Brandon:
Like some people will think a million dollars is a lot of money.
Brandon:
Some people will say 10 million is a lot of money.
Amer:
Others will say 100 million.
Amer:
And I know people who have made, well, everything along that scale and even more.
Amer:
I know them personally who aren’t entrepreneurs, their corporate people.
Amer:
You can make that money on a risk adjusted basis.
Amer:
Easier in a, uh, you know, venture capital, corporate finance, legal, even a corporate job.
Amer:
If you’re like the number two person in a company or you’re doing so So making money itself isn’t I think the main drive or shouldn’t be the main drive for entrepreneurs.
Amer:
Maybe it is maybe for younger people, and I don’t know, I I don’t think it has to do with it.
Amer:
Um, but but that passion, right?
Amer:
You didn’t like that word, but in some cases, the passion for a particular cause or a mission that leads you to start a company.
Amer:
It’s, uh, and in the process you’ll make a lot of money.
Amer:
Uh, it’s, uh, you had said, you know, we were talking earlier about the reason you know, um, I think forget actual point was What reason people start a company is that, you know, because you see a problem.
Amer:
I think it’s it’s to.
Amer:
One of the characteristics is not only do you see a problem, but you want to challenge the status quo, right, because you can fix the problem using every day approaches.
Amer:
But if you’re saying that the Giants and the behemoths and the companies that I’ve been doing it for 2030 years, they’re doing it all wrong and they’re created a bad experience and back things, and I want to change that right so you’re solving a problem.
Amer:
But you’re challenging that.
Amer:
Take some major Kahane’s as well as grit and passion and everything, and because you’re solving a big problem in a very big space, there’s a lot of money at stake, which you could potentially make right.
Amer:
But again, I think the data I haven’t seen the latest data But the odds are against anyone entrepreneur, because, well, succeed here.
Amer:
Here’s an interesting thing.
Amer:
Uh, this is actually going to this record will come out today on Wednesday on Monday I did.
Amer:
I pulled all the research because I was getting tired of hearing.
Amer:
You know, the stat.
Amer:
50% of companies fail in the first year.
Brandon:
I was, like, so the other Sunday, I don’t know what I was doing recovering from a bike ride and like, you know what?
Brandon:
I’m gonna chase down this and see where all this comes from.
Brandon:
Like where the study’s Where’s the real data?
Brandon:
So I started pulling the string and I read one article and I look in the cliff notes where they reference and I go to that article.
Brandon:
That article references another article.
Brandon:
It’s like nobody ever.
Brandon:
So I went to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and I pulled the data.
Brandon:
And actually, the odds aren’t that bad.
Brandon:
Armor in 10 years, like 23% of the company still exists at five.
Brandon:
It’s about 53%.
Brandon:
And what I don’t know in that data, which it didn’t reveal, which some of those companies may have had exited someone may emerge. Some of you know someone went out of business. But the data is not complete. Are the odds against you? They absolutely are against you. Can you mitigate that risk?
Brandon:
Yes.
Brandon:
Um, so I think as it relates to to that I have a different perspective.
Brandon:
Because I saw that data and I was like, I think and frankly, the stuff that you do, I’ve been following your podcasts And you know how to write business plans how to pitch.
Brandon:
That’s what is needed as well to mitigate some of those risk.
Amer:
Right?
Amer:
So the training that you provide is a great service.
Amer:
I’ll pay you. I’ll take you out to dinner for that.
Brandon:
But that is it.
Brandon:
You think that you’re not born with that You can train and learn, right? And you need to learn all these things to be able to succeed.
Amer:
I think the other thing that you touched on, which is really important, which is interesting about the and I saw, uh, when I saw you like one of my bike Raj.
Brandon:
Recently, I was like, Did I sign up? But you actually been on Strada for a while. You just hadn’t logged any.
Brandon:
I wasn’t doing any exercise that, like I play a lot of squash.
Brandon:
But Strada doesn’t recognize squash.
Amer:
Well, you can log that with the manual thing, but not not, not really. It’s not one of those one of those things. I know you do play a lot of squash, but I think the other thing that’s really that you mentioned, which you can teach or give is a support group, Right?
Brandon:
Like you know, this if you’re going to be motivated us down that program because people like me who follow you and like your stuff if you don’t show up, it shows up like what happened to Amery.
Brandon:
Hadn’t hadn’t done the arrogant three weeks like, hey, she shoot you a text, right?
Brandon:
Or it’s also that dopamine like I want all those like I got like 42 likes on my ride the other day.
Brandon:
I mean, so having that support group, would you agree around you and just whether that’s you know, I mean, you’ve been on the board of my company having accountability, whether that’s just informal formal, I think actually paying someone in in many ways, um, makes you accountable because you’re invested in using the resource that you invested in or even board members, right?
Brandon:
You give board members equity, and you’re paying them to, in many ways, be accountable.
Brandon:
So I think that accountability, um, network, I don’t know, like you and I, you know, call each other up.
Brandon:
When you used to do dinner on Thursday night before covid and your kids got big, Um, you know, that was support group, right?
Brandon:
In many ways, but absolutely.
Brandon:
Like, I guess I would flip it around.
Brandon:
Like, why would you not want to support group?
Brandon:
Why would you not want advisors or a board or your friends to pump you up?
Brandon:
I mean, you know, or you or tell you that this is stupid for these reasons.
Brandon:
Like why would you not?
Brandon:
Why would you think you can do anything on your own without some people?
Brandon:
Some people don’t.
Brandon:
I don’t know.
Brandon:
Some people don’t feel comfortable enough, I guess.
Brandon:
I mean, it’s it’s not easy all the time, right?
Amer:
Hey, Armor.
Amer:
How How am I doing running the company?
Amer:
Well, Brandon, you really suck because your quarter sucked.
Brandon:
You’re not getting traction.
Brandon:
And you’re clearly not doing things right.
Brandon:
like that. That can be a hard pill to swallow, right?
Brandon:
Yeah. But then, you know, uh, there’s ways of giving feedback without saying Brandon, you suck.
Amer:
Yeah, but come on, man. I mean, I’m exaggerating. You’re right. But but it’s the criticism of anything that can be hard. And if you’re if you haven’t heard no, 100 times, if you haven’t gotten feedback 100 times in your new entrepreneur and all of a sudden someone’s telling you and you’re already on the edge like your whole reluctant entrepreneur, these reluctant entrepreneurs which I think is an interesting way of putting it there on the edge like one thing like, Oh, man, I don’t know how good you look today like they shut down, right?
Brandon:
That’s true.
Brandon:
Um mhm.
Brandon:
Uh huh.
Brandon:
So whether it’s investors or a board or friends like, I guess it’s personal for for everyone.
Amer:
But if I look at around me and just the people have spoken in the last 18 months who either asked for guidance or money or people I’ve met, I’d say what?
Amer:
Just doing rough math in my head.
Amer:
The majority of them surround themselves with a support structure.
Amer:
Um and benefit from it.
Amer:
So, you know, I remember I said, one of the things there’s a lot that you’re born with, but there’s stuff that you can be trained on, right?
Amer:
Like knowing how to listen, knowing how to take feedback, uh, knowing how to motivate people.
Amer:
These are all things that you can train on and and and And hearing all that from even hearing the tough news from your board or advisors, you know, makes you stronger if you have enough grit.
Amer:
And if you’re so convinced that this is gonna work, you might just say, hey, thanks the armor for that brutal feedback.
Amer:
But you know what?
Amer:
I’m just gonna do it my way because I believe in what I’m doing.
Amer:
Um, And, uh, so I guess I don’t know what my point is other than to say that, uh, you’d be stupid to not surround yourself with a good support structure.
Amer:
Yeah, I think you do.
Amer:
Uh, I just did my 3 60 with all the people I should have said had descended to you.
Amer:
Um, but the way that I do it is really simple.
Brandon:
I just asked people to describe me in four words and what I do. Well, what? I don’t make it really easy. Um, but you can You can gleam a lot from that. And if you start to exercise, uh, no pun intended and do that, then you get used to the feedback, right?
Brandon:
And we’re all human, so it’s sort of a *** in your in your ego, but, um, you get used to hearing things, then it makes it easier.
Brandon:
Yep.
Brandon:
What?
Brandon:
That’s a good thing to do.
Brandon:
Three sixties.
Brandon:
I like that.
Amer:
Yeah, make it super easy. Actually, G, uh, built it in google sheets and, like, 10 minutes and sent it out to everybody on the team and said, uh, it’ll be anonymous and feedback in.
Brandon:
Uh, I think I’ve tried to know I haven’t tried.
Brandon:
I really have implemented a few of the things You of things quite candidly.
Brandon:
I said what you said, which was like, Hey, uh, just who I am.
Brandon:
Yeah, to change that core thing would just fundamentally throw the whole I don’t want to call magic, right, whatever it is.
Brandon:
But at the same time, it’s good to know that that’s how that’s what people see in you, right?
Brandon:
So you can then manage to that when you work with them.
Brandon:
So it’s all helpful.
Brandon:
I think it takes it takes a lot to want feedback on yourself.
Amer:
That’s anonymous, because some of it’s gonna be brutal. And and not everybody to your point. Likes to hear the the truth.
Amer:
Well, I think wrapping up here a little bit on the reluctant entrepreneur.
Amer:
And can you tg entrepreneur be an entrepreneur?
Brandon:
Is it an eight?
Brandon:
Is, um God, I had a really good point that I was just about throw down and is, uh mm.
Brandon:
Oh, my God.
Brandon:
That means I’m getting older.
Brandon:
I’m just running running too fast in my brain.
Brandon:
I don’t know.
Brandon:
Um, we’ll come back to you if it was a really good point.
Brandon:
Well, I hotel.
Brandon:
Um What was I gonna say?
Brandon:
What were we talking about?
Amer:
Um, you don’t remember either.
Brandon:
What do you daydreaming?
Brandon:
It’s five minutes of lunch, and and you haven’t gotten there.
Brandon:
Um, you’re just gonna summarize, right?
Brandon:
And like, uh, yeah, well, they’re reluctant.
Amer:
I think that I think you know the things you can’t.
Brandon:
Yeah, I think the whole reluctant entrepreneur Oh, here was the point is I think reluctant entrepreneurs or people who are considering it or even think they have a good idea.
Amer:
I think they talk to themselves too much.
Brandon:
I’m guilty of this completely.
Brandon:
And you know who really taught this or at least made it popular.
Brandon:
It’s not a new concept, which was Steve Blank, who’s sort of an older entrepreneur here, obviously in the Valley now. But still he’s still prevalent, teaches, and his his things he teaches are really good, which is, you know, if you think you have an idea that’s so good, stop talking to yourself and go, Oh, this was about tying it to the feedback.
Brandon:
Stop talking to yourself, just go out and call 20 perspective customers and get their answer.
Brandon:
But this goes back to what I was saying when you’re like, Oh, why wouldn’t somebody want to have a mentor program because they don’t want?
Brandon:
It’s very hard to take that feedback right?
Brandon:
And I will give somebody a piece of advice around this.
Brandon:
Another thing that I, you know, you and I, I think in in a lot of those dinners have always been at least honest with one another were like Hey, if we knew everything, we’d already you know, we’d be richer than we already are.
Brandon:
We We’d have everything and we’d all all our bets would always work.
Brandon:
Um, but, you know, just because someone gives you that opinion doesn’t mean that they’re right, Right?
Brandon:
Like even the best investor in all places in Silicon Valley still gets about seven or six of them wrong.
Brandon:
Is that fair?
Brandon:
That’s very true.
Brandon:
Data supports that.
Brandon:
I think so.
Brandon:
Like, if you’re out there listening and you have an idea, go call people Steve Blank’s course.
Brandon:
I don’t know if you’ve ever saw that armor.
Amer:
He makes you call 100 potential customers in the first week or you basically out of the class.
Brandon:
So, like, just stop talking to yourself and, uh, go make it happen so that that’s that’s That’s very good advice.
Brandon:
And I think it’s not just for getting customer feedback, but what I was alluding to earlier that there’s a lot of these reluctant entrepreneurs basically talk themselves out of it before they even started because they’re talking to themselves about all the risks.
Brandon:
And will this work will customers really want this?
Brandon:
And to your point How are you going to answer that?
Brandon:
If you haven’t spoken to 100 of them, right?
Brandon:
You’re just hypothesizing, you know?
Brandon:
Um, so, yeah.
Brandon:
Go knock on doors, figure it out.
Brandon:
Like I think it’s good to start with a problem that you have and solve it.
Amer:
But then go talk to 100 people or, you know, I tell people just just call like 20 that you don’t know.
Amer:
Not your mom.
Amer:
Your mom is always gonna tell you have got a good idea.
Amer:
And I want you to be successful.
Amer:
Uh, so I’m are finishing up what would be three h p t s.
Brandon:
That you would give entrepreneurs out there who are reluctant.
Brandon:
They believe they have a good idea, but they’re talking themselves out of it.
Brandon:
Three h p t s high percentage tips.
Brandon:
I’m glad you, uh, told me what that t l.
Brandon:
A was because I wasn’t familiar with h p T.
Amer:
Yeah, that’s yeah. From my fishing days. H b t high percentage tip.
Brandon:
So three h p. T. S. That. People who are thinking about starting becoming an entrepreneur, uh, would be to, uh, have a thick skin going back to all the nose, Uh, that you’re gonna get, um, surround yourself with whatever you call it.
Amer:
Smart people capable people who’ve done it.
Amer:
People who failed, right?
Amer:
Get feedback from others.
Amer:
Um, and including by the way prospects customers go do Your research would be one.
Amer:
Uh, And so, uh, what was the first one to get a thick skin deep, persistent, Uh, surround yourself with people.
Amer:
Um, and then what’s the third one?
Amer:
I guess it would be signed up for Brandon whites.
Amer:
Uh, no, you can’t do that.
Amer:
You can’t say that.
Amer:
That’s not it.
Amer:
You can’t do that.
Brandon:
But, uh, no.
Brandon:
So that my other real one is, uh And so this is again, I think, a conversation for a different day. But you’ve been reading about the flight from Silicon Valley, right? And and new hubs like Miami and newly energized hubs like Austin and, you know, people going to Texas and stuff.
Amer:
I am one of those maybe fewer people now in the valley than before that think that the valley is still the ultimate place for entrepreneurs to be because, I mean, I am generalizing again, but there are there’s areas you can be a very successful entrepreneur in Florida or New York.
Amer:
But it just feels to me that your chances for success and learning are greater in the ecosystem that we have here, right, because there’s people like you that people like me.
Amer:
There’s people like Elon Musk.
Amer:
There’s, uh there’s, uh, investors.
Amer:
They’re sandhill road.
Amer:
There’s angel investors, those courses.
Amer:
Uh, there’s alums from Airbnb from eBay from uber, whoever who want to do the next big thing.
Amer:
So, uh, that’s the other thing.
Amer:
Like, make sure you’re in an ecosystem that is supportive of what you’re doing. And I mean that from all angles, from funding to training to, um, you know, skipping some of the learning along the way or accelerating your path to the next milestone.
Amer:
I think people underestimate that, um, the and that’s what I think makes Silicon Valley so special.
Amer:
Well, let’s let’s talk.
Amer:
Let’s do another episode if I can grab you for an hour next week on this because I actually agree with you, and I’m not saying that there won’t be another area, but I did have an experience on the other coast with, uh, the region that still hasn’t gotten there um, but mainly because this ecosystem here in Silicon Valley took 100 years to build.
Brandon:
And you and I know a lot of that history and and we can talk about it, and interesting enough, I’m glad I pushed you to the real third H p.
Brandon:
T.
Brandon:
Because I actually ran.
Brandon:
Read a scientific study yesterday that studied this and said that they have found that the most successful entrepreneurs, as rated by length of company and money made have been in quote unquote ecosystems that have allowed them to learn, uh, from their peers from the environment, from the just news right, our news that we get here in this region and it’s really not the Silicon Valley Silicon Valley seems to really go from, was it?
Brandon:
Go from Mill Valley now, all the way to, um, past San Jose, right to Morgan Hill, Um, and even Santa Cruz and Half Moon Bay and all these places now, But there is something to be said, uh, and and it’s actually one of a few reasons why I moved here candidly.
Brandon:
I think it’s the same.
Brandon:
You and I talked about this, right?
Brandon:
You moved back, right?
Brandon:
So, um Let’s save that conversation.
Brandon:
Thanks for taking time out of your day to make this happen.
Brandon:
I am very much looking forward to when we can go back to our Thursday night dinners at your house.
Brandon:
Me, too.
Brandon:
So hopefully, uh, starting summer, it’s not a little bit more.
Brandon:
Thanks a lot, man.
Brandon:
All right, thank you.
Amer:
Thanks for being generous with your time and joining us for this episode of Build a Business Success Secrets.
Brandon:
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Brandon:
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Brandon:
Mhm, Mhm, yeah
