Ian Clifford is CEO of FuelPositive and a Repeat Entrepreneur Who is Building a Company that Makes a Clean and Sustainable Carbon-Free Fuel | Ep. 200 | Business Podcast
Summary
Ian Clifford is CEO and Founder of FuelPositive. He has more than twenty-five years of experience in the fields of technology and marketing and has successfully led FuelPositive to global brand recognition through its unique energy solutions.
From 2006 to today, Ian has raised more than $60 million in equity financing for the Company.
Previously, Ian co-founded digIT Interactive, a full-service Internet marketing company serving Fortune 500, which he sold at the peak of the Internet market in 2000.
This is a “how I built this” episode packed with tips from Ian that you can use to build your business.
Links from the show:
Hello friends,
Brandon:
Welcome to the Edge. Today we’re talking with Ian Clifford, the Ceo and founder of Fuel Positive, a growth stage technology company that is building commercially viable and sustainable cradle to cradle clean energy solutions including their newest product, a carbon free ammonia that can be used across a broad spectrum of industries and applications that can lower our carbon footprint and leave the world a better place.
Brandon:
IAN shares with us.
Ian:
His journey to founding Fuel Positive.
Brandon:
He started his career as an early technology pioneer in the internet and sold an interactive company.
Brandon:
You hear about that And his journey with fuel posit and how he’s pivoted and raised over $60 million dollars for the company, which is now public.
Brandon:
IAN drops a ton of tricks and tips that he’s learned along the way that you can apply to your business, you’ll enjoy this episode.
Brandon:
Ian Clifford, Ceo and founder of Fuel Positive.
Brandon:
Welcome to the Edge podcast, your weekly playbook about the inner game of building a successful business, making you a happier, healthier and richer business owner and here’s your host, Brandon White, Hey, how are here?
Brandon:
How you doing?
Brandon:
Great, I’m great, how are you doing?
Ian:
I’m going good.
Brandon:
I was just writing you an email actually, believe it or not.
Ian:
Trying to find me.
Brandon:
I was trying to 3rd, thanks for joining us today man.
Ian:
Hey, it’s a pleasure.
Ian:
I was reading about Fuel Positive and before we start talking about it, I love to learn how you started this company.
Brandon:
I think you’ve been doing it for 15 years, but I noticed that you actually have an arts background and was wondering if running and starting a company that trying to change the world for the better was the goal coming out of college?
Brandon:
Yeah.
Ian:
My arts background was in photography specifically.
Ian:
And when 18 years old, I had the privilege of being one of Antal Adams assistant in Yosemite and caramel.
Brandon:
And it was the beginning of my life and the end of his.
Brandon:
Uh so I caught an immense bug very, very early on in my and that’s remained with me throughout every everything that I’ve pursued through my various, I’ll call it careers because I’ve been down a number of different but ultimately culminating here with you then and looking for viable fossil fuel, carbon free replacement technologies.
Brandon:
And we’re onto something interesting today.
Brandon:
So that must have been an incredible experience to be with handsome atoms.
Brandon:
I mean, he’s one of the most iconic photographers of all time.
Brandon:
Absolutely, yeah, I learned a lot from him, he loved to teach, he was nose had a joke to tell.
Ian:
I’m studying with him in Yosemite because of course, so many of his iconic images are situated there.
Ian:
Even then you could see the of environmental degradation on, on the comparing the photographs that were taken in the 19 thirties, 19 forties compared to the early eighties when I was with him.
Ian:
Just the differences were profound and he had gone through his life, really trying to capture and preserve the natural beauty that exists in so many parts of our world, which of course are all so deeply out.
Ian:
So he had a very powerful message to impart and as a young photographer in that regard.
Ian:
But of course the world learned a lot from Ansel as well.
Ian:
Yeah, that’s incredible.
Brandon:
Did you get to spend time in the dark room with him?
Ian:
Because a lot of that work that he did was really done in those three trays in many ways.
Ian:
Right.
Ian:
That was magical.
Ian:
It was watching him him print and one, I mean, that’s stage in his life.
Ian:
He had a lot, a lot of people assisting so dark and that much at In his 80s.
Ian:
But it’s still just seeing how he would manipulate light.
Ian:
And uh, and and the qual was was was always so profoundly captured.
Brandon:
And uh, and he was an incredible technician.
Ian:
So, I mean, back to his work and he really understood understory light and uh was able to manipulate is so effectively and which is that, that we had had never seen before historically.
Ian:
So, yeah, he was truly a pioneer in so many ways.
Ian:
So, did you get into photography because of your love and concern for nature or was it the photography?
Ian:
And then working with Hansel and seeing that that actually sparked that?
Ian:
Well, it was, it was a bit of both actually, I, my fascination with photography really came from friends and having a dark room and seeing an image pop up in the developer and I’m thinking amazing that.
Ian:
So I caught the bug.
Ian:
They’re just curious teenager.
Ian:
But as I became more serious about it, I was extremely interested Nique and of course one of the go to source for technique.
Brandon:
Certainly in black and white photography was Ansel and he had developed so many profound books over over a number of years looking at tech science and photography and that fascinated me a lot.
Ian:
And then of course the environmental debate became huge motivator for me and a big part of my path forward was of course, always being heavily focused on so you you do your studies, what happens next for you?
Ian:
Do you decide that you want to have some impact on earth and build a company or do you decide that you’re going to be a freelance photographer or how does that work?
Ian:
Well, yeah, I became a freelance photographer.
Ian:
So during the 80s had an interesting career that all over the world I did a lot of different photography.
Ian:
I did a lot of travel photography, which photography but I did also a lot of studio photography as well.
Ian:
So I had a really sort of eclectic career that took me a whole bunch of different directions and I also digital photography and that was because of an insulin.
Ian:
So when I was when they were just publishing Yosemite and the range of light again, books all of the images in that book were and into a computer and and the images, he was able to then manipulate images on the screen as opposed to the door.
Ian:
Um, so none of us had seen this before.
Brandon:
And so it was like this moment of it was a real Aha moment and it was like, this is incredible and this is sure.
Brandon:
But no one was touching digital photography and it was completely unacceptable when I it was a commercial photographer I was able to invest in and do a lot of digital work on.
Ian:
I think I actually had the for Windows based copy of Adobe photo shop that was released.
Ian:
So I I had a client who computers.
Ian:
So I was able to trade photography for computers and and doing that.
Ian:
So that that part really evolved Then I became involved in the Internet really early as well.
Ian:
So from photography into multimedia work and then into Internet marketing back in 1995.
Ian:
So this sort of again sort of way ahead of the curve.
Ian:
And we formed a company in Toronto that was doing marketing very, very ended up selling that in 2000 and then moved into my next career was interesting.
Ian:
It was electric long before anyone who’s doing electric cars.
Ian:
So I’ve always wanted bullet steps ahead and electric cars then turned in battery technology and ultimately battery tech to where I am today, which is is looking at carbon free uh carbon free ammonia.
Ian:
So that’s kind of the trajectory.
Ian:
So it’s a it’s a winding path but about it all and a deep commitment to environmental cause and environmental everything that I did along the way, I was trying to positively impact environmental change every junk interest.
Ian:
Did you take the money from the internet marketing company and start fuel positive or is that how it happened?
Ian:
Or you take a few years off and I thought it was going to take a few years off, but kind of once an entrepreneur, so I jumped right back in and I had a long time interest in electric cars.
Ian:
You couldn’t buy an electric car.
Ian:
You know, that was these were the days of the V1 and and other California based Was that you couldn’t purchase, certainly not in downtown Toronto.
Ian:
So I sort of said start an electric car company and that was initially the company was then motor company.
Ian:
So it stood for zero minutes and we produced neighborhood electric vehicles.
Ian:
So these were little cars that the bodies were built for us in France and ship them over to North America.
Ian:
We sold about 1000 of them across the U.
Brandon:
S.
Ian:
That was our market and at the time made us one of the large electric car companies in the world.
Ian:
Only enough.
Ian:
But I became very interested in batteries and energy storage technology and that was really sort of a I became much more the focus of the company and we started investing in a technology that was being developed in Austin texas, a true solid state energy storage technology.
Ian:
Still working on that.
Ian:
We’ve got a group with Nasa who’s doing some really interesting work in that regard.
Ian:
And then with that, about 18 months ago we were introduced to carbon free ammonia and that’s the been the focus main focus of the company definitely over the last Over the past 18 months did you stop making cars?
Ian:
Because obviously the battery issue about just not being able to hold the charge long enough to make it worth the travel effectively to do any long term distance.
Ian:
Yeah, I mean that was the main reason and that’s what we came so focused on on the battery side of the equation realizing that the main reason we don’t all drive electric cars today is the fact that very technologies has been the real achilles heel if you will of the injury.
Ian:
And also at the same time major automakers were starting to look at electric vehicles and we became much more focused on the idea that that the value in this was really going to be on the battery side of it.
Ian:
That’s why we, that’s why we shifted focus that time.
Brandon:
Now we have done exactly what Tesla did at that time, interestingly enough, we could started building our own highway capable vehicles and and taking that path.
Brandon:
But we made the decision that the key to the, to the solution is in fact energy storage and ironically still remains that.
Ian:
So I think we took the right path.
Ian:
It’s a it’s a it’s a much longer path in that regard.
Ian:
Yeah, I just I got an electric vehicle.
Ian:
I probably will never go back, which is not what I would have said.
Ian:
I’m a not that I’m not an oil thing necessarily, although that I understand the impact of earth.
Ian:
It was basically just to think that you can’t hear the car, you can’t do that and you have to charge up all the time.
Ian:
And I don’t know, electric electric cars are pretty interesting.
Brandon:
Tesla specifically, mainly because of the self driving.
Ian:
I think that self driving puts it over the edge for me at least just like if you’re just about the environment then I think electric works for sure.
Brandon:
So you build cars, you sell out of all the cars, you decide that the battery technology is really where The innovations are gonna need to come to make the car viable.
Brandon:
And then 18 months ago you come up with or run into maybe you can talk about a new type of technology that you’re excited about.
Brandon:
That could sort of change the game.
Brandon:
Yeah.
Brandon:
So ultimately, I mean the path has always been around replacing fossil fuels and whether that’s through electric action or other means I’m not sort of the core mandate for the and and somebody were introduced to a technology being developed by Professor Doctor Ibrahim denser of 33 scientists, they were based are based on the Ontario Technology University side of Toronto and they were developing a free ammonia generation or synthesis system.
Ian:
This is a small modular design that allows for the production of carbon free.
Ian:
Um, okay, so where it’s needed.
Ian:
So we started doing some real bill and found out that carbon free ammonia, well, first of all, ammonia is a, the second most quantified produce chemical on the planet.
Ian:
It also has the highest manufacturing.
Ian:
So it’s a huge environmental footprint negative But it’s essential predominantly for agriculture, 80% of ammonia used today.
Ian:
Agriculture is fertilizer, essential uses in manufacturing around the world.
Ian:
So we were very interested china pneumonia and not only what it would mean to agriculture, but the fact that burn ammonia as a replacement to fossil fuel.
Ian:
So you can take a gap little powered engine converted to on carbon freedom.
Ian:
Yeah.
Ian:
And you’ve basically bought a pure zero emission internal combustion engine.
Ian:
The only exhaust is water vapor and to me was just quite fitting for a number of reasons.
Ian:
It’s going to take an awful long time for electric.
Ian:
The numbers where they’re going to make a very significant environmental difference, But also there’s about two in into The engine vehicles operating on the planet today.
Ian:
Many of them operating in areas of the world where they’re not run efficiently and they contribute to about 80%.
Ian:
So with this opportunity or the conversion of existing internal non carbon free ammonia, the production a fuel if you will can happen wherever it’s needed.
Ian:
So we can have centralized fossil fuels for instance, and you can produce a full on site where it’s needed stations or refueling depots or what have you could be producing their own and storing their own carbon free fuel to refuel trucks and cars so on.
Ian:
So it’s kind of this revolutionary way of looking at energy and energy consumption, production and consumption that changes things dramatically around the world.
Ian:
So that’s one application.
Ian:
The other app is agriculture and and as I said, 80% of Ammonia is used in agriculture today.
Ian:
So agriculture recorded around the world is hugely moved to clean up its act and the idea of having system on a farm against all the ammonia that’s needed for fertilizer.
Ian:
But any additional ammonia that can be used in to run tractors and combines and dry crawl.
Ian:
Oh, pain and so on.
Ian:
So ammonia is this amazing?
Ian:
Well that has all of these different potential applications and or existing applications.
Ian:
But carbon free ammonia makes it makes it just a game changer in terms of in terms of global emissions and the technology works today.
Ian:
This is what we’re talking about this, the, This is in 10, horizon stuff.
Ian:
This is this systems that we’re building now that will be ready for deployment in 22 actually out there producing and delivering carbon freedonia and this carbon free ammonia ble work in existing combustion engines with no alteration needed.
Ian:
No, they require, it requires a convert oh, similar to very similar to how you would convert.
Ian:
I’m a gasoline, gasoline or diesel powered car today to run on propane or natural gas, interestingly ammonia stores and is transported very similar propane.
Ian:
So it’s, it’s a very, very easy fuel.
Ian:
Tench and and transport as well.
Ian:
So how, how would people, what’s the process to get this rolled out?
Ian:
I understand the, you know, you have existing infrastructure of combustion engines into your point to replace them all with electric cars is going to take quite a while just naturally.
Ian:
So is this, uh, is this a $50 alteration?
Ian:
$100?
Ian:
Like do we have an idea of what like my wife who has a Toyota highlander, How can she just go in for $100 get converted and now she can use this alternative fuel.
Brandon:
It will be more than that.
Ian:
And it really also depends on the number of conversions that are done.
Ian:
So like anything, there’s going to be economy scale for this.
Ian:
But if you’re comparing it to a gasoline conversion for instance, which can happen for under a couple of $1,000, you would then have a zero emission internal combustion engine vehicle, which is radical, but also in terms of incentives and so on are expected that there will be a lot of incentive for this, but mainly because the vehicles that are on today globally that are contributing so radically to global warming.
Brandon:
This is a one way of addressing addressing those parts very significant way and very quickly.
Brandon:
That’s the thing here is that there’s no mystery to said historically, green or carpentry ammonia hasn’t been produced, hasn’t been part of the equation.
Brandon:
And now with new technologies and ways of doing it include, um, it’s viable.
Brandon:
That’s what, that’s where it gets really again gets really, really interesting, really, really quickly, how does it compare on a cost for a gallon basis?
Brandon:
Gas Has gone.
Brandon:
I don’t go to the gas station anymore, but I drive by them and you know, gas here in California for regular unleaded is for $84.80.
Brandon:
How does this fuel compare to that?
Brandon:
You’d be looking at the price at the, at the pump, It’s a lot less expensive in a manufacturing process.
Brandon:
And uh, and you’ve got to remember the huge part of the cost that we pay for fossil fuels is transportation.
Ian:
It’s the cost of getting from the refinery or even the well on the other side of the, to your gas pump.
Ian:
So there’s a huge plantation component.
Ian:
The same for fertilizer as well.
Ian:
So the other, the major you and Houston in large entry type factories today, it’s typically built very close to the source of fossil which is utilized in the manufacturing of ammonia and then it’s shipped all over.
Ian:
So it has a enormous energy footprint, not just on the manufacturing side but also on the distribution side.
Ian:
So we talked to a farmer.
Ian:
They may use three or 400 liters of ammonia per day on an annualized basis for fertilizing their farm.
Ian:
They are now able to produce that site.
Ian:
And the only thing they need to create carbon free ammonia is a sustainable source of electricity, a carbon free source of electricity.
Ian:
So solar, geothermal, hydro and sustainable source water and air.
Brandon:
And then not only your own fertilizer and you get off then the supply chain fertile file in terms of pricing and uh fossil fuel which we all know is incredibly susceptible as well.
Brandon:
So this is a great story first.
Brandon:
It really resonates with them and uh if you can, is one of the most unstable part of their business and really dig carbonized them.
Ian:
It’s an amazing, it’s an amazing offer.
Ian:
So what’s next in this process for you and the company to make this a reality for?
Ian:
Are you going to do a test market in a small town?
Ian:
Is it a select state?
Ian:
Is it a province?
Ian:
How are you going to sort of roll this thing out to make it a reality for people.
Ian:
So right now we are working in Toronto called a national compressed air producing scalable in mall compressed gas systems for decades.
Ian:
They’re incredibly super subject matter expert in the space they are then now with our team building, Modular and scalable phase two demonstration systems.
Ian:
So these are going to be ready by the end of the year early do and as you suggested, these will be very high profile, high visibility the projects specifically.
Ian:
So two things we can educate in terms of how viable this is of economical but also, no, that’s always a big question mark for any new technology being launched and today very much made in Canada technology.
Ian:
We have a lot of interest federally and provincially to support what we’re doing.
Ian:
But I mean we’ve got from an agricultural perspective, we’ve got perfect that could be used for test bed specifically for the rollout of the technology and create as, as, as I said, a high, high visibility on this and then scaling manufacturing these, they’re built on 20 and footprints.
Ian:
So they’re, they’re really straight manufacturer and and sport and we see this very much as an export technique.
Ian:
Energy that can very easily be deployed all over the world and again, built in Canada and exported around the world?
Ian:
Well, it sounds like it has a great potential.
Ian:
How are you funding fuel positive?
Brandon:
It’s a publicly traded company.
Brandon:
Are you continually doing more offerings?
Brandon:
I’m just curious because until you get to the, until you can just are generating revenue to fund yourself to get there.
Ian:
Do you have another stream of income in the company?
Ian:
We’ve got we are public as you pointed out.
Ian:
So we we trade trying to venture exchange on the Otc QB.
Ian:
Change in the US.
Ian:
So we’ve got a really strong shareholder and a lot of institutional investors as well.
Ian:
So if capital we typically do a public of of stock and raise, raise money that way.
Ian:
But we’re also, as I mentioned, government interest in the technology and odd of the programs today and in the United looking at fossils placement and fuels and also cleaning up agriculture, which is a obviously a huge mandate.
Ian:
So so our nation Into 2022 is we’re going to have a lot of government support a demonstration side of the equation and then ultimately on the manufacturing side of this, this is this is a real significant job, creation opportunities, manufacturing side.
Ian:
great industry for oil and gas works who are transitioning out of that out of that industry into a similar from a technology perspective, something that would be very easy to move sideways into being fully retrained for.
Ian:
So there’s interest there, as I said, there are partner, they have been working for many decades in oil and gas and mining, but they recognized when they looked at our technology that this is a tremendous stepping, um, as well into carbon and urban free future which of course is essential.
Ian:
I mean the fighting is on the wall and has been for a long time.
Ian:
But the recess for change is immediate.
Ian:
The technologies that are going to enable that exist today, like ours.
Ian:
And the implication has to happen now.
Brandon:
So that is a big, big part of our focus.
Brandon:
Well it sounds really exciting.
Brandon:
I mean if this can happen it can really transform the environment candidly with every single combustion engine which there’s certainly plenty of those on earth right now.
Ian:
Yeah, billions and billions.
Ian:
I mean, it’s still, yeah, I didn’t catch what you what what was the statistic of how many combustion engines are currently are on earth?
Ian:
Well, if you look at cars, if you just look at you, it’s over two billion existing around the world.
Ian:
I actually don’t know the number if you include stationary internal combustion.
Ian:
So you’ve got millions of gen sets, you’ve got millions of other other engines that are used in a in a stationary application.
Ian:
Industrial commercial application.
Ian:
So there’s it’s an endless, it’s an endless opportunity in terms of how this would happen.
Ian:
But yeah, we’re really interesting partners on the conversion side of the equation because among the fuel for for decades and decades and different at different times in history, it was very heavily in the during the second world, fossil fuels were scarce that a lot of conversions happened with trucks and cars and things to run on ammonia NASA.
Ian:
No, in the in the 60s where the, I think the fastest The X 15 was running on pure Ammonia and so it is a great combustion fuel and now with the advent of carbon free um oh you certainly have this amazing super dense molecule hardened free.
Ian:
Right?
Ian:
So I mean this is this is the change, this is the breakthrough and uh and this is where it becomes on a global scale becomes viable.
Ian:
Which is which is fascinating.
Ian:
Yeah it’ll be it’ll be incredible if you can make the pull this pull this off.
Ian:
It’s a big market let’s say for what you’re building.
Ian:
So it sounds really exciting.
Ian:
You know you’ve been involved in in business for a long time in a really eclectic background.
Ian:
As as we said before, would you have three tips?
Ian:
H.
Brandon:
P.
Brandon:
T.
Ian:
S we call them for fellow business owner listeners out there who are listening to this.
Brandon:
I’ve got a few first of all only work with people that you would literally die for.
Brandon:
I mean you want you want people that you can with your life and choosing good people to work with is a over the years and I’ve been through my mistakes and Quarantine that that I’m building for fuel positive is sort of a culmination of of making mistakes over 30 years and and now ending up with a wonderful team and things that we choose as well.
Ian:
So it’s all about people obviously have people that you can trust with your life literally the second one is avoid narcissists at all costs able to do business with and when you see one run.
Ian:
So again, it’s, it’s so important to were honest and you’re good values and your values and the third one adopt a rescued dog or two and let them come to work with you.
Ian:
That’ll make a big difference as well.
Ian:
Actually.
Ian:
Never heard that one, but that is a great tip and it’s so true.
Ian:
Where’s the best place for our listeners to find out about fuel positive if they’re interested in investing and and can learn more about the whole company and this exciting new technology that you guys have discovered.
Ian:
Sure, well fuel paul.
Ian:
Com is our web address and a wealth of information.
Ian:
There are lots and lots and lots of investors and lots for, for end consumers and, and the law of interest this who want to understand the technology more.
Ian:
So that’s a great, great place, a great resource.
Ian:
And then as a trade on the, trying to stop the venture exchange trading symbol, there is N H H, which is the molecular, when you left for NH three harmonia or we trade on the otc cube in the United States and our trading symbol areas and H H H f like frank.
Brandon:
So yeah, we just, we actually just graduated into that.
Brandon:
It and, and we’ve got a phenomenal response from listing in on the Otc QB.
Brandon:
So yeah, those just to go and then if you have any questions, obviously there’s the opportunity to ask them.
Brandon:
We do a lot of information updates.
Ian:
We do webinars quite regularly as well.
Brandon:
So we’re part of this is educational because people think of ammonia, they think of doing it on a skating rink or in clean or something like that.
Ian:
So the familiarity is somewhat limited farmer for decades.
Ian:
So yeah, the educational part of it and I find our website extreme educational informative in that way.
Ian:
So yeah, that’s where I take a look.
Ian:
Well, that’s perfect.
Ian:
And we’ll put all of that information for you listeners in our show notes.
Ian:
And Ian thanks for taking time out of your day to share your experiences all the way from the beginning to here.
Ian:
And the very best of luck with fuel positive.
Ian:
Thanks Brandon really, really appreciate it.
Brandon:
Thank you so much.
Brandon:
Thanks for being generous with your time and joining us for this episode of the edge.
Ian:
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Ian:
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