How to: Become a Digital Nomad and Travel the World – Whitney Dover Tells How She Went from Corporate Attorney to Traveling the World: Business Podcast

Summary

How do you give up a job you don’t like and become a digital nomad? In this in depth episode Whitney Dover opens up and explains how she had enough with her day job and how she prepared and made the leap from working in a cube every day to traveling the world.

I was lucky enough to track her down when she had internet and get the whole story.

You don’t want to miss this episode if you feel stuck in your job, need some inspiration, and instruction on how to make the leap.

You’ve got to here her story…

A full transcript of the episode is below.

Brandon: 

Welcome everybody to another episode of Built a business with Brandon. I am your host, and we have Whitney here today. Thank you for taking the time. It is,  what is it? New Year’s Eve? 

Brandon: 

It is New Year’s Eve. 

Brandon: 

Whitney is I don’t even remember where you are. 

Whitney: 

But you’re gonna tell us where you are when he’s got a great story. We met through another mutual friend and a guest on the podcast. Zhou Tian. Oh, and Joe, after he did the episodes that hey, he had three people he introduced me to. Whitney was one of them all super interesting people who are doing things that I would say are making the best of life. So any Thank you so much for doing it and finding a really good Internet connection. I know you’re Mexico, right? 

Brandon: 

Cross fingers crossed. You know, we actually had to go yesterday and buy a new life I set up for the house were staying. 

Whitney: 

And, not not only for this podcast, but also for just work and life, because the connection we’ve had for the last week or so has just been not adequate, as as goes the life of our digital nomad is, Yeah, well, I’m glad to hear that, because I think I connected with you and your husband and Lincoln and I saw it was pending. 

Whitney: 

I didn’t take it personally because I figured you didn’t have internet. 

Whitney: 

So,  at least u got the look. 

Brandon: 

That you sounds really clear. If we have a problem, we’ll just keep on rolling. But when he can, you take us through your journey when he was an attorney of all things and how. 

Brandon: 

I mean, if you choose the career of an attorney, you’re sort of really going down a very traditional. 

Brandon: 

I say that in the most loving way, but you’re going down a career path that’s very traditional. Then all of a sudden, we find you in this digital nomad style, and so can you take us through from you know, I’m not saying from 12 years old, but from when you did, you always want to be an attorney. 

Brandon: 

And how that how that happened? 

Brandon: 

Sure. I’m so I was born and I’m just kidding. 

Whitney: 

I Where are you from? Those because that’s an injury. I think the listeners would be interested to that. Because you’ve jumped a few countries. 

Brandon: 

I have. I have. So I was born Teoh, a very traditional set of parents. Which is why I took such a traditional track on, like when it came. Teoh career choices. Babel, Canadian. I happened to be born during distant that they were living in Anchorage, Alaska. So I actually have dual citizenship and have lived significant amounts of time in both countries, probably a little longer in the U. S. Now than in Canada. But when I consider where my from, I usually tell Canada, it’s where I spent most of my child rearing years. both my parents were professionals. My mom was in early childhood development and very educated. My dad is an architect and seeing sort of things, So I kind of came by the, professional inspiration and motivation. Honestly, it was something that was fostered in my family, and education was always very important to both of my parents. I think like a lot of little kids who are argumentative and good at negotiating, it was kind of, you know, drilled into me at an early age. That could be a great earlier, which I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing that Neteller used, but it certainly, you know, was a contributing factor to me deciding early on that that would be a good track for myself. 

Whitney: 

 we wound up back in the States when I was in high school in Southern California, and I was very privileged to go to a long government magnet high school, which really just bolstered my love for long government and realizing that I was very, very good at that and something that, you know, it was fulfilling. 

Whitney: 

 after after high school, I went to college, I went to U C. 

Whitney: 

Santa Barbara, which is on the beach, and after living in Canada, I thought, I’m never leaving this place. There’s no snow. There stands there. So for boys and this is just who doesn’t want to live, you know, in this type of environment. So, in law school or in college at U. C. Santa Barbara, I interned for few local politicians. I actually thought that politics probably gonna be more my speed. Not so much the legal end of things but most politicians go to law school, so it seems like a pretty natural progression for me to junk there. I took a couple years off of school after after college. Thank goodness needed to dry out a little after Santa Barbara at places Wildes. Well, place. I’m not sure if it still is. I was actually talking to somebody recently who was saying, It’s actually pretty challenging to get in there academically now, so I probably wouldn’t qualify. E. 

Whitney: 

I think it’s still, I think there’s some people still having fun. From what I hear, how can you not? 

Brandon: 

I mean, we have the same thing here in Half Moon Bay er on the edge of Silicon Valley. But people like, Are you serious? Well, we’re sort of serious, but, yeah, you live at the beach, right? Like what you do. 

Brandon: 

Absolutely. I think there’s something about that California by two, having lived in a lot of other places. Now it’s just There’s something about, you know, the culture there that is kind of that laid back son, you know, lifestyle that everyone really dreams up. So for me, that was prime location for four years, but it also took a little bit of recovery. 

Whitney: 

No. When you were drying out. Where did you go to dry out? 

Brandon: 

Sure is. I moved L A. I hope that’s a good place to dry. 

Whitney: 

Yeah, probably the worst likes I could’ve. 

Brandon: 

I work for Fox Broadcasting Company in their legal affairs department. 

Whitney: 

 I had,  close family friend who took me under her wing, and I kind of meant toward me there. And after, After working over a couple years, I thought, You know what? The entertainment law industry is pretty interesting. So maybe that would be my past post law school. 

Whitney: 

But I didn’t eventually go back to law school like I moved down to Orange County. Went to a small private law school there. It’ll Chapman great, great, great experience. So grateful. I took those two years to really get my head back on straight and figure out that law school was an extensive endeavor that I probably wanted to invest a little bit more time and energy into, and gosh, the people who say they hated law school. I would I would go back to law school in a heartbeat. I just left it. It just It was challenging. It was great, but because I had already been in the working world, like, treated it like a job. And for me, it was something that was just so if something I was good at. But it was also something I really enjoyed.  I don’t think I quite had the same educational experience and undergrad much to my own doing. So Law school was wasn’t I street to actually feel like I was gaining so many skills and so much knowledge and, you know, making incredible connections. So that was that was an exciting time and a really great time for me. 

Whitney: 

When I came out of law school, I graduated in 2012 and when I came out, there were not a lot of jobs available except for in litigation. So I kind of thought, Well, you know, maybe we’ll test the waters there, see how it goes. And it wasn’t necessarily what I thought I would do. I always thought I would go back more into her team in law. Are you know something? Maybe more politically charged? but alas, you go where the jobs are, especially when you have student loans to pay back. So I went into a litigation job, jumped around to a few different firms, and turns out it was pretty good at litigation. So I was very lucky in the firms that I was with. I had some amazing mentors there who, you know, also gave me some great experience. I had some really great trial experience early on which many litigators go years and years before, you know, they ever see the inside of an actual courtroom for trials. So that was a pretty exciting time for me. But it wasn’t long after, you know, kind of getting into a location that I thought, like, Wow, just not all it Not Well, I thought it was gonna be chalked up to be. You know, winning is fun and feels good, but amount of time that it takes actually get to the place where you’re in the game is a long time on Got something that, you know, I thought was going to be quite like this. You much like any and get sold a different seal of,  different bill of sale. Then when you actually get into the job and start practicing and kind of doing the things that come with the day to day of that. So can you Can we unpack that a little bit? 

Whitney: 

Just what you know, what was what was so I mean, ironically, I thought I was gonna be an attorney. 

Brandon: 

My grandfather was an attorney and I thought was gonna go to law school. in many ways, it didn’t work out for all the whatever the universe’s reasons were, which appear to be good so far. 

Brandon: 

But what is that? What was in your mind when you went in and then what was You know, you had this expectation. 

Brandon: 

You’re basically let down, it sounds like Sure, I grew up with a very strong female presence. 

Brandon: 

My mother was so independent, so driven. 

Brandon: 

So just feminist Teoh, the max, litigation and law traditionally is still a very male dominated fields. And so there was really something for me about going into specifically litigation that I had something to prove. You know, I was gonna go there. I was gonna do this thing. I was gonna become a partner. I was gonna have a family. I was in balance all these things. I was good because high powered litigators and all the money I was gonna be great at what I did. But I was also gonna have this, like, amazing home life. 

Whitney: 

And, you know, when you actually get into something and realize I mean number one house work that actually takes, but also number two. 

Brandon: 

 what, you have to compromise and give up in your life in order to make those things work. you know, So I guess some people are able to do it for me. I didn’t see a clear path is to how it was going to be able to balance all of those things and quite honestly, getting there and being good at something wasn’t fulfilling. And it was really this huge let down. Kind of like what you said. You know, I worked all of this time my full life. I thought this was the thing. This is this is my path. This is what I’m gonna do in life. I’m gonna be so great on all on all planes. Great mom. Great wife, three partner, great person on. Not just yet. Didn’t quite didn’t quite pan out the way the way that I wanted Teoh I think probably the first big sign for me was the huge hole that pulled that it took on my house. you know, your first couple years is a litigator. You’re burning the midnight oil. You’re working crazy hours. You’re doing all the work that nobody else wants to do. to say it’s not a happy place is a nice way of putting it. You know, if you make it through those years, sure, it gets better. But there is a certain rite of passage that if you’re especially in the litigation world, if you’re coming up through the banks, you’re kind of working your way through. And I think that not just took a much bigger toll on me. Then I realized it would kind of that first indicator for me was health. 

Whitney: 

You know, I I started putting on a lot of weight. It was sick all the time. I just wasn’t in a positive good place anymore. I was I was always really active. I talked been trust all through law school, and so I continued that when I was practicing a za lawyer. and it’s really upsetting when something that your body has been able to do for a long time when your body starts. Not really loving doing not activity anymore. For me, that resonated in some aches and pains that I kind of thought cashing in my twenties lies that happening. 

Whitney: 

 and, you know, I’m working out all of this time. Why am I still putting on all of this weight? You know, because you’re not sleeping and you’re eating. I want all the time drinking, and you’re doing all these things to go, Cliff, you know this I highly stressful environment. 

Whitney: 

 but secondary to that. You know, when your health really takes a hit, your relationships really start, you know, facing a big challenge as well, because you yourself are not in a good place. And so that started kind of becoming an issue. I started missing a lot of events for friends. and then the third kind of issue that sort of a rose quickly and was a much bigger issue than I thought it would be would actually be the financial wherewithal at all. 

Whitney: 

You know, you make good money in litigation, but I was essentially paying a mortgage every month in student loans. which they don’t tell you about four. You gotta watch school on DSO. 

Whitney: 

That was a big undertaking. And so here I waas working crazy hours with a good job, you know, well educated. And I was still living paycheck to paycheck. So there’s something a little disconcerting when you know you think this is gonna be the most awesome situation and your health takes a hit, your relationships take a hit. And then financially, you’re also kind of struggling like it just it wasn’t. And then on top of that, it’s a very stressful environment that’s very combative. That’s very aggressive that you’re fighting, you know, gender roles and young roles. And, gosh, if I had a nickel for every time someone asked me Are you the court reporter coming to, you know, take this deposition or do whatever it was? I be rich, Woman pointed, tightened. So you know, there’s there’s a lot of aspects of it that, you know, I think kind of were pushing me. So this is probably not where I’m going to be forever. But truly, the catalyst was meeting my now husband and him moving in. That was kind of the push that I needed to realize that there’s something outside of this. I don’t have to live this traditional life. I don’t have to be this person in this role. That’s I’m happy and, you know, living the dream, so to speak, but not living the dream at all. and Chris, my husband, you know, is like I said, the the catalyst behind all of this I blame and attribute all of it to him at the same time. he’s about the most optimistic and positive person I’ve ever met. And when you live with someone like that, it’s really hard not to feel that way yourself, or when you’re feeling. Not that way, it becomes more evident that there’s something wrong with that and something you’re unwilling to sell with. 

Whitney: 

Eso it. Really? I knew there was some things that were a miss since and things that were not fulfilling, but it really wasn’t until we met and really started living together that that became apparent. But okay, it’s time to make a move. Time to make a jump. I don’t know what the heck that is, but it’s something different than then where I’m standing right now. 

Whitney: 

So just to recap, you come up with a traditional family, hard working family. 

Whitney: 

Your mother is a hard charger. 

Brandon: 

You’re basically built, so to speak, to go to law school or law school, become a doctor or, I don’t know, some profession, right? 

Brandon: 

Essentially, you go into it and it is nothing like you think. 

Brandon: 

And and I was thinking when you were talking is what a lot of people don’t realize is that in these professions you do make a lot of money. 

Brandon: 

When I was a venture capitalist, everybody’s like all you make a lot of money. You’re doing all this stuff, but let’s unwind it a little bit and do it a port per hour basis on a per hour basis. 

Brandon: 

It starts to change the whole game, and people don’t see that right. 

Brandon: 

That’s not They don’t because that’s not what is cool or doesn’t boost our ego right By taking the curtain back and saying Yes, I make multiple six figures, but by the way, I work about 18 hours a day. 

Brandon: 

I can’t remember what city I’m in. 

Brandon: 

 my health is through the roof. 

Brandon: 

I have no relationship. 

Brandon: 

I feel lonely and I don’t know. I keep going, right? I mean that I’m told I’m in my twenties, thirties or forties, Whatever that is. I look like I’m 70 right? 

Brandon: 

And, you know, So you come from there, You do it for five years, right? You’re doing five years, this crime, which is crazy, and you meet your husband now. Husband. How long was it? 

Brandon: 

Few questions? How long was it that you met him, then he moved in. 

Brandon: 

And then you quit your job and what was Can you tell me that pivot I call pivotal moment. What was that pivotal moment? 

Brandon: 

But you said okay Because it takes a lot. I mean effectively. What you have have and all of us have when you’re in those situations is you have a habit. Your habit is you’re gonna goto work. You’re gonna be the traditional person gonna make this traditional money. But they break a habit is, as we all know, is not easy. So there’s thes pivotal moments that have to be The motivation factor has to be so high that it triggers that behavior. 

Brandon: 

And when we talk about career changes and those sorts of things like there has to be a breaking point, right? 

Brandon: 

Absolutely. 

Brandon: 

So I guess an order of those questions on I was come chuckling as you were asking how long it was until my husband moved in. Because much to my very traditional families dismay, my husband and I met on tinder. It was the one night stand that never ended. And he moved in pretty immediately after we met. So, you know, imagine a situation. He’s serial entrepreneur. He had actually just moved back from Latin America, where he’d been living for 10 years. 

Whitney: 

He didn’t really have a stable job when we met. 

Brandon: 

He was sort of in and out of some consulting gigs. and actually, the reason why she wound up moving in so quickly was he was working with the company who had, as part of his kingdom plan, put him up in housing. And that situation wasn’t working so well. So he had said, you know, let me just stay with you for a weekend figure out. Like where I’m gonna go after that. and you kind of get out of this toxic living environment, I thought Yeah, sure. No problem. Well, that was you know, five years ago. So what? Six years ago, whenever it was So, so that all happened really fast and was kind of havoc. Your different e and very much the circumstance of, like, you know, I’m not I’m not sure who this Whitney is. 

Whitney: 

It’s behaving in this totally non traditional and really abnormal way. 

Brandon: 

But there was something really exciting and attracted need to about lifestyle and to him, I’m very type a very regimented or team based. He’s the total opposite of knees, though it was very much that opposites attract and, appeal of just this unknown kind of lifestyle. 

Whitney: 

So, like I said, kind of missing is he moved in. He was waking up at 4 a.m. Just happy, as could be like it is, it is the most patronising thing. Toe live with somebody who is that happy when you are not happy. But there’s like there’s nothing works like we just I was the last cause when we not he didn’t even have a vehicle. So I would drive him into work every day on my way into work and keeping up for, you know, five hours by that time I was on my 10th cup of coffee and still half asleep, driving him into work, and he would just be but the car telling me about all the wonderful things he was going to do that day and all the amazing things you read in the five hours that you’ve been up that I’ve been, you know, dead to the world. 

Whitney: 

And it just it was the most aggravating Driving to work every morning for several months. 

Brandon: 

Like just finally, I just do my I can drive you to work anymore. Like it’s just it’s really setting me up for, like, nothing situation. We’re getting into fights in the car like I just don’t want to be with you at that hour of the day. I was kind of that self professed night apple like I hated mornings I didn’t want start a day. It was, you know, something from you were Just don’t talk to me before I had, you know, my 50 pots of coffee and I’m somewhat normal human status. So that was kind of the beginning of the beginning of the end. I suppose it took several more years, so because I am so Taipei and just very logical and routine basis. You know, I worked my entire life to get to this place. It was a huge part of my identity. 

Whitney: 

It also works really hard within my law firm to establish a routine and name for myself and reputation. I have gotten some really good experience. And so there was a bit of, you know, not everybody got that. I should be grateful for this. This is an opportunity that not everyone gets, like, Look at all of the amazing things that I have. you know that point time? I had a few clients, so I definitely had a level of commitment to those clients. I didn’t want you to walk away from them, but for me, that this serious thing was that survival. Like, What do I do if I’m not a lawyer? How do I pay my bills? How do I make it work? You know, we were living in Orange County. You’re keeping up with the Joneses? Barely, you know. But how How do I do that? I don’t live that lifestyle. If I don’t have a consistent paycheck, even if it’s killing, you even donated. Even if I’m losing, you know, relationships over, even from fighting with my soon to be husband every morning because of it, you know, it was it was still a really scary thing is you know what that kind of movement point was gonna be. But because I have been together for, you know, a couple of years we’ve been living together, and it was, you know, still kind of that grind. I was watching him test things. No, that doesn’t work. I’m gonna try this other thing. I was watching him fail that things and pick himself up and, you know, sweet himself off and be successful. But other things, which for me was kind of a first, like if you failed at something, that was the edge. That was just you didn’t come back from that. So that was new to me on dso watching somebody with that sort of resilience. And there’s a great book that I always tell people about because it is very pivotal during this point time. 

Whitney: 

It’s called Mindset by Dr Harold like Onda talks all about. 

Whitney: 

I’m not sure if you read it, but it talks about the fixed versus the growth mindset. and the people who kind of make decisions based on, you know, both of those different personas. And I definitely even still struggle a lot with being more in that fixed mindset. You know, whether that’s how I grew up, whether that’s being a lawyer, whether that’s, you know, personality, whatever that is, it’s still something that I’m very are you aware of? My husband is very growth oriented, almost to a fault. 

Whitney: 

And so it definitely creates, You know, that dichotomy of watching somebody in the growth mindset always and realizing that, like, wow, that’s so different than where I live, where my mindset is and really starting to change kind of that mindset from the fix to the growth And how can I adapt that on? Didn’t you being contributing human in society but also feeling happy and fulfilled? Well, I’m doing that, kind of the tipping point that really changed it all was sort of a career making trial. 

Whitney: 

I had, it was a beast of a case. We had acquired it from another law firm. We had been very successful in some dis positive emotions, which essentially means we have gotten a lot of the keys kind of kicked out before it went to trial, but it was still multimillion dollar case. I was having to move Teoh, Central California for eight weeks to try it. It was, you know, I couldn’t have asked for a better opportunity ever to be involved in that to be, you know, part of the preparation of that. 

Whitney: 

It was a client that I had helped bring in, so I felt very committed to it. kind of on the cusp of that trial shortening, I was diagnosed with mono like the kissing disease. Like, you know, people were 16. Get that? Not when you’re in your late twenties. 

Whitney: 

So it was It was really this moment in time where I was laid out, I had a trial looming. I, like, needed to get for lack of a better rebounding if I can swear on here. But I need to get my shit together. And it was far from together which, and it was it was kind of that moment where Chris looked at me and said like, Hey, listen, if if this is your track in life, I suppose were you if you want to be partner, and this is what it looks like. And you’re gonna move to Fresno for eight weeks with mono to try this, like, amazing case. It could be still good for your career. Like, cool. I’m all for it. But, like, what does that look like? Looks like this, cause I don’t really want to sign up for this. On more importantly, you know, we’re talking about getting married and having kids and doing all of those things. What does it look like with the addition of that? Like, are you ditching with, like, a whole family? Then for eight weeks and I got to, like, be super dad for that period of time. You know, you got to be a total, you know, not nice person leading up to your preparation of that trial and like, we’ll just have to deal with that without saying anything. 

Whitney: 

And we’re importantly, like, is it gonna take it to heart attacks here? You know, like toned down a little like, what does that look like? You know, your health is like your body is literally rejecting this lifestyle that you’re living. 

Whitney: 

You know what? What are you gonna do about that? when it becomes bigger, because it just gets bigger and better from from there. So it was kind of at that point in time that I said, All right, let me get through this trial. See, you know what happens on the floor, Bend a big at my health in a better place on decided to actually delve into the personal development, which is kind of the first time that I had really done that, because my whole life I had wanted to be a lawyer. So I had been developing to be that to be that professional person, there haven’t been a lot of personal development. I took this six week course from Louis House who is a lot myself entrepreneur called school greatness. 

Whitney: 

I don’t even know if you actually still has it. But they put you in like, these little pods and you work with other entrepreneurs. 

Whitney: 

You know, you got kind of the experience of group mentor, chef as well as them, like the weekly lessons. And there was this great exercise in there where you had to write out what your perfect day Waas like if you, you know, just wanted the perfect day vacation day workday like, What does it look like? Write it down. 

Whitney: 

And it was so depressing to me because I couldn’t even think of what my perfect date look like. Like I was so far until, like the bogs of just somebody else’s times and the also schedule somebody else’s life. I didn’t even know what that looked like for me. I don’t know what made me happy. You didn’t know what was fulfilling Toso. I was a pretty big way. Don’t call for me to really start evaluating how I was living and whether that was, you know, truly authentic to what I want to be doing. So took this course. 

Whitney: 

I was still teaching Spend at this time and thought, You know, I like active wear leggings living in leggings like Maybe there’s something I could do with that on the side, like drop shipping online or, you know, figure out some sort of kind of gig where I could make a little extra money and see you know what happens. And the rise of subscription boxes was kind of just coming up at that time. So I thought, you know, there’s not really a subscription box for women’s activewear. Maybe he could start that up. So, Chris, myself and another partner, started, you know, nights and begins just cranking on this subscription box idea. I was still locating full time, still working full time, but kind of, you know, this could be a good exit plan or at least some money that I could put aside so that if I wanted to leave, I would have, you know, a little bit of best day sitting in the wings. and it sort of exploded a little bit faster. Think any of us expected it would,  divine timing, Universal intervention. I don’t know exactly what that was, right Time, right place. But it certainly was a good team in terms of all of us having different sorts of skill sets and working together to, you know, get things up and running. And it was an opportunity for me to say OK, maybe I feel comfortable going part time with the law firm. So luckily, they were open to that. I was not a person who was ready to, you know, stay CIA without there being some sort of safety net. That’s just not my personality. Heat in life and not something I was capable of. But there wasn’t a giant savings account, you know. It was just this other business that was kind of operating. I have one foot in the door, still one foot out. I kind of thought, If things go South Swift, you know the subscription box, at least I can step pull back into the litigation world. I know what that looks like. I know what it feels like. It’s not great, But, hey, it’s comfortable. Andi. It wasn’t until my mom, who was 56 at the time that diagnosed with brain cancer and died a few months later, that was kind of the okay. Life’s too short, like it doesn’t matter that that job will always be there waiting for you and always act with. Maybe not at that law firm, but, you know, maybe a different one, maybe somewhere else. But like that job is always there. You always have that skill set. You know you could do that. So, like stop screwing around. It’s time to, you know, do something that’s meaningful and is going to make you happy and not something that you’re wasting another day doing so that was a very long winded. 

Whitney: 

I appreciate you taking this route that that, a few things. 

Brandon: 

One I just want to say thank you. Because I think it takes a lot of courage to reveal the truth of I sort of. 

Brandon: 

I mean, I do the straight talk here, but I was like, Man, maybe I shouldn’t ask winding that question like you have someone that but just so that everyone future guests know that I will never leave my guest hanging out there. 

Brandon: 

I actually my wife and I did same thing. 

Brandon: 

 I met my wife. She was totally opposite without going into all that. But I just don’t leave you out there hanging. You feel like to put you on the spot. That takes a lot of courage to do what you you have said here. And I’m really grateful for that. And I know our letter listeners will benefit from that for sure. But it’s not easy, and I come from the East Coast where it’s very structured, and there was a very structured ah program for me that was supposed to happen, and it’s very, very, very hard to break that structure and you know and do that. 

Brandon: 

So you take it back. 

Brandon: 

My wife and I did the same thing. I met my wife. She was from California. Totally different. Like everything. 

Brandon: 

Totally everything. She just She had moved across the country to a boarding school. 

Brandon: 

The ride horses when she’s, like, 14. And you know, for me, it was like, Wow, this 14 year old woman or a girl a time makes the decision and basically moves 3000 miles away from home, which, in the structure world of what you came from and and I came from this for, like, you don’t do that, you start staying in her home. You you you’re gonna get married to one of the, you know, fine, unique women, women or men in your in your place. 

Brandon: 

And then that’s how it’s gonna happen. 

Brandon: 

And we moved in together within probably four months. 

Brandon: 

I was a lot like your husband. I my car sort worked,  I was working part time job, was going to school. It done was working another part time job to pay for my start up. And it was it was really wacky. and we actually which you know, there’s a lot of people. I think our generation is a little bit different. And, your parents generation was Hey, you fall in love. You’re not gonna move in together until you get married. And then I’m going to all this. 

Brandon: 

My wife and I didn’t get married for 14 years and we lived together for 14 years. We’ve been together for 25 years and and I will tell everybody it was really hard. Right, Because why aren’t you married? 

Brandon: 

And for us, we we weren’t gonna have kids. And we have that that pressure everybody like, Well, you’re not gonna have kids. That’s what you’re supposed to dio like I don’t Where is that book like? Can you give me that book? Show me in the book were hurt. What chapter is that? And why are you following that book? Because this is not how you operate. So I just want to share that so that you’re not out there alone because it is very hard to do it. 

Brandon: 

And I think the other thing that I would say for the listeners listening to you is it is very hard to leave a job and that you have in that safety net, Because winning. 

Brandon: 

I know you. 

Brandon: 

You and I have talked a little bit about this. 

Brandon: 

There’s so much and I’m going to use the word cause you’re used it shit out there that says, make the leap, make the jump, do the jump All you can just do the jump it. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I believe you should take the jump because I was built that way to sort of live that lifestyle. 

Brandon: 

 and I couldn’t leave live me personally in that corporate world, and I was in it, and it was pretty much a matter of either. 

Brandon: 

I’m gonna leave it eventually fired because you don’t fit in. 

Brandon: 

But, I think that the I sort of lost my train of thought I was going with that. 

Brandon: 

But the breaking that mold into own it’s not as easy to do, is it as they say, And I think you do have to have that moment. 

Brandon: 

Motivation. 

Brandon: 

Pivotal. 

Brandon: 

My column. 

Brandon: 

Pivotal moments. And I walked back in my life to the actual day like it’s so clear in my head when these things have happened. And it does take that for your mom. I mean, It’s sad. Terrible, terrible story. Right? 

Brandon: 

 but everything in the world happens for a reason. 

Brandon: 

So I think everybody should be sad about things, is what I say. and we all you know, not everybody but you. When you have these tragic things happen, right, which would be the right word. 

Brandon: 

You’ve got to go through that grieving in your own way. You gotta structure it. And then I think you have to go and look for the reason why it happened because, well, you believe or not I believe there’s a reason that everything happens good, bad or indifferent is doesn’t matter. 

Brandon: 

But then find the reason and use that to your advantage. 

Brandon: 

And that’s what you effectively did. Really. 

Brandon: 

 and sometimes I worry for the for the listeners out there. Then you know, as crazy as this may sound, don’t have this tragic moment, right? 

Brandon: 

Or don’t have a sad story, so to speak, or, you know, because it that’s the motivation. If you look at me, I grew up with a single mom with not a lot of money. So what’s the drive like? You can always go back for you traditional life, Mom dies of cancer suddenly and you’re already at your breaking point. 

Brandon: 

But truthfully, if your mom didn’t have that, you know, the question is would have been getting married to Kris. Been enough to get you over. 

Brandon: 

I we don’t know. 

Brandon: 

You’ll tell you? 

Whitney: 

Yes, of course he will. 

Whitney: 

I know you will. I mean, I talked to him yet, but I know well enough already to know that. Of course, he’s going to see that. But the truth is, is without those people moments. So on this pivotal moment that you have Do you remember the day that you put in your letter? 

Brandon: 

Cause there was a day, right? What? Where that look like? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, it kind of was just at my wouldn’t like, I just you know, I remember. So she might. My parents lived in Los, I guess when she was diagnosed with cancer, we had done my wonderful husband who’s amazing, it research had done a lot of research. Doesn’t specifically about brain cancer. The University of San Diego has an amazing, amazing program for brain cancer. They do a lot of trials out of there. So we had elected to make the decision to go to San Diego to move there, and to have her treatment in San Diego. and it was great for us because it was a little bit closer than Vegas, less in terms of commuting. But for all intents and purposes, I was remote at any time. I was still part time with the law firm, but I was working remotely, and it allowed me to be with my mom in San Diego for the entire time that she treated And, you know, the last few months of her life. but I remember, you know, while she was treating, working on motions and, you know, getting on calls with, like, one of my partners about something, you know, that we were doing for one of these big emotions that we were doing. And it was sort of one of those those points in time where I was like, Is this like, is this really a priority right now? Like, are we really talking about? Yes, I understand. It’s a lot of money, but like someone literally dying in my life like I’m watching someone die, I’m you know, she’s got no speech left. She can’t walk. She can’t do anything for herself. Like the super strong, powerful independent force in my life is totally, like, you know, not able to do anything at this point in time, like in terms of priorities. Like I’m really sorry, but your priority is just not pretty for me anymore. so I don’t know that it was a specific day, but certainly that point time was enough for me to kind of realize, like there’s just, not a privatization of this any more in my life. In my world, and really, after she died, then it waas part of that almost grieving, like I need to abandon this part of my life because life is too short. She was in perfectly good health until this happened. She was young. None of us saw this coming. Like what a shocker. and if I died tomorrow, would I be satisfied with being one foot in the door one foot out the door when I’m satisfied with this, like, kind of tangential, like entrepreneurial and upper that I’m doing. But I’d be satisfied with my health with my relationships with all of the things in my life. And, you know, really. When you take an inventory of those things, it’s it’s on more top mortality. Motivation, essentially, like if I’m dying is a my happy with how I lived my last day and answer for me was no. So, you know, to make those changes was was important and not to get too ahead of myself here. But it also kind of aligned nicely with a realtor knocking on our door and offering us some money for our house and kind of, Ah, when the universe comes knocking you, you listen. All those things, I think at the same time sort of felt like Okay, there’s some divine guidance or, you know, whatever it is, that’s kind of also helping the energy here so that we are not stuck in this place. And we’re not holding onto this grief, but also grieving, you know, some part of us that’s dying because we’re not, you know, living full out and playing full out and doing all of the things that we wish we would have done, you know, but didn’t have the opportunity to do because disease happens or, you know, whatever else. So certainly that point in time was you know the point in time for me of just okay, It’s time to stop playing so small. Like this year that you have is nothing compared to death on dso that at this point in time, it’s time to jump or you know, you’re gonna You’re gonna die, rate your wisher. So what’s the point of that? 

Whitney: 

Yeah, I’m laughing. Not because because of Joaquin eyes, because it’s true, right? Like, yeah, we’re all I say that to people. People tell me about that. I go, you live in California, pay all these taxes. I’d be looking 60 years. I’ll be dead, like, kind of like, no friends anybody, but I’m at the beach, You know, I got my God, you’re gonna worry about that. And I think you have to rain that back in, because when you start getting yourself into these details and you don’t take yourself out to 30 or 40 50,000 feet, you lose sight of the fact that, yes, I’m an optimistic person, and I believe I’m gonna live forever. 

Brandon: 

But the reality is unless someone cracks that code really soon, like in the next 60 years and yeah, right. 

Brandon: 

So, I gonna bet on that and then go live in some work taxes. 

Brandon: 

But, no, not to get off on a huge standard, but it’s very Upperco for you to mention that on New Year’s Eve, because I just didn’t know if you saw my INSTAGRAM stories from today. 

Brandon: 

But I got on a little bit of a soap box for a second because it really just drives me crazy. 

Brandon: 

These people who are you know, 2019 was the worst year. Like, I just can’t wait for 2020. And you know, this This last year just had so much turmoil and stress and all of these things. And it’s much in line with what you’re talking about in terms of finding Julie and but processing in every day and living out every day because you’re not guaranteed tomorrow. So you know, January 1st is just a date on the calendar. Nothing changes unless you do. And you know, there’s so much to be grateful for in so much progress and growth that comes from that struggle that even if it was a challenging year, you know, my gosh, imagine like what hurt? But groundwork use late for, you know, the months to come. So it sort of is appropriate that we’re having this discussion on New Year’s Eve because I think that, you know, every year sort of comes up for a lot of people With that, ba humbug, you know, this year was not as great as I wanted it to be. A next year will be better, and it really is, You know, part of that finding joy and every day and finding during the process and being, you know, joyous humans so that you are kind of living full out. And you know you’re right not to be morbid, but our death is eventually it’s it not morbid. 

Whitney: 

And people, you know, people say that’s pessimistic. No, that’s riel like. And if you’re not aware of that, when you start to really frame it and understand that you are going to sleep for 15 to 20 years of your life from zero or day one plus 12 21 for the most part, regardless, if you went to college or whatever, your brain is literally still developing like you were not even, you know, I sometimes I’m like God. 

Brandon: 

They let me drive on 16 on the open rise. Like my brain. 

Brandon: 

Like many. I mean, that’s a fact. You know, as I went through development psychology when I was going through that and I was like that. That is crazy. 

Brandon: 

But I think that you have to keep things in perspective and realize that, you know, there is that the new year to do something new. 

Brandon: 

But you need to make that assessment every day. 

Brandon: 

And,  there was a student I told my wife this this’ll morning cause she got up super early this morning. 

Brandon: 

I was up late last night trying to get a podcast cause I’ve got this. I’m so I’m like your many or like each other in many ways with me. Like I’m gonna stay on that schedule. So I I’m like, Hey, we’re gonna publish this podcast tonight and my wife got home. We went out to dinner real quick and it was late, and I am very regimented about when I go to bed. I need to be asleep by 9 50 is my rule. 

Brandon: 

 but I stayed up late because I had this role, but I needed the public, the podcast, and there’s two students of mine who are doing something they’re not. 

Brandon: 

I wouldn’t calm digital nomads yet, but they’re there. It’s called Country Adventure and they are traveling around and trying to use that to build a business. And they’re building a following. And once they get there, I know they’re gonna be able to make it. But they’re in Mexico somewhere. The hotel didn’t go right like everything is going wrong for them. In fact, they can. I didn’t even look at their story this morning, but last night the story was they couldn’t find any money because all the money machines were out of money in Mexico for whatever they can’t get. 

Brandon: 

Any can keeping pace. 

Brandon: 

This hotel is screwed out. And she said When we got married,  they went to, I guess, whatever church they’re a member of, they have pre counseling. 

Brandon: 

He said, Look, times are going to be stressful. It’s gonna be awful. And when those things do and you start to fight, just say we’re making memories were making memories. So she’s in the car saying We’re making memories and my wife had gotten up it at, like around five this morning and in general It’s not like her. 

Brandon: 

She doesn’t get up early. Is Ideo She just had were both on a look. 

Brandon: 

We’re both about an hour and 1/2 off with each other, right? 

Brandon: 

 so she’s walking around and something’s bothering her as I look. 

Brandon: 

It s so why you annoyed why you speaking someone doing this morning? 

Brandon: 

She’s like, I got this stuff going on. I said, we’re just making memories, baby. We’re just making e. And I think you just have to do that. Not just what you’re 1000 partner, which I think is a You see what it does. 

Brandon: 

Like even I said that to you and you started laughing because it’s true, right? Cause you know that you and Chris have those conversations, you know, we’re making memory that lightens it. But I think you got to remember that about everything in life. 

Brandon: 

 whatever, however bad, however good or whatever. 

Brandon: 

 and the other thing that I say to people is like, everybody has a sad story. 

Brandon: 

Like, we all have sad stories. 

Brandon: 

So you gonna one day you’re gonna decide to either leave that sad story behind in the sense of letting it affect the future of your life. 

Brandon: 

I’m not saying that you don’t acknowledge it. 

Brandon: 

I’m not saying that it’s not a part of who you are, but you’ve got to decide that you’re not gonna let that affect you anymore because you don’t have that much time left. 

Brandon: 

 so you and I could probably do six hour seminar on this New Year’s Eve, but we won’t. 

Brandon: 

I want to come back. 

Brandon: 

You You’re at this time. 

Brandon: 

Do you remember, though, the day that you wrote your resignation letter? 

Brandon: 

Like, do you remember that specific day? 

Brandon: 

I don’t remember riding the resignation letter. 

Brandon: 

I actually went in. I had a really great relationship with our managing partner, and so I actually went in.  gosh, when I went in to tell him I was going part time, I was so nervous he was gonna tell me to hit the road. Forget it. We don’t want to part time with all or nothing on DSO. That was more of a monumental moment for me that, like, step from full time to part time. because it’s not traditional. It’s not something that most lawyers do, and it was totally out of the box. for what? Any of the other lawyers in our for we’re doing. So I think that was more pivotal. Attorney, I remember, like, how much my bracelets that can you document him, like, you know, presenting him with this option, because he totally could have told me to just take a hike. And sorry, we’re not interested. 

Whitney: 

So that was the point in time for me that, you know, was very memorable. going back in to tell them that I was quitting. Officially, though, it was a lot harder just because I still had a lot of attachment Thedc amendment I had made there, which, you know, in hindsight, is just so silly because it is, like, very business. 

Whitney: 

Like there. Yes, of course. Like, you know you’re gonna turning, Or is that just go? Like, you have good client relationships, etcetera, etcetera. But I’m totally replaceable, like that’s not I’m not a unique snowflake in any way that, like cannot be, you know, put somebody else put in my place and, you know, doing the same work that I was doing. 

Whitney: 

So it sort of is, in hindsight, kind of funny to look back and remember how bad I felt about leaving because I really felt like, Oh, he had given me this opportunity to go part time. I have done that for a year. It was working so well, but it was really my time to kind of, you know, stay like Listen, this actually isn’t working for me because of access I Z and all these other things that you know what kind of transpired. but certainly it felt a little bit better not telling him Hey and bouncing to Goto offer it was like a and bouncing because I just don’t want to do this life. 

Whitney: 

And, you know, I’m I’m becoming an entrepreneur and we’re selling our house and we’re moving. We’re going to travel into all these things, and I’m sure he looked at me like, Wow, you are absolutely Nets. But, you know, in in my rolled in a season of life, it just was like, OK, this is just a necessity at this point in time, So, yeah, I don’t know that the second meeting was very memorable, except I remember feeling really bad. It was more that first at first step, you know, with like, let me go nontraditional in this totally traditional business. But can you work with me? Teoh do kind of this more part time remote gig instead of, you know, the traditional lawyer route. 

Whitney: 

Well, I think that’s a good journey, though for people to one is to recognize that when you do the transition, and I and I recommend for all entrepreneurs that are going to transition from anything, whether you’re a lawyer, whether you’re a plumber, whether you mechanic, whatever that is that you don’t that you do have a transition plan and your transition plan was resignation up, recognition that you didn’t want to do it. 

Whitney: 

You got a side hustle going which started to make you believe right? 

Brandon: 

But you can make money in a different way other than getting a paycheck every two weeks. 

Brandon: 

And then you went part time, which most people don’t even think of because they think the same thing you did, which is they’ll never let me do it. 

Brandon: 

So I’m not gonna ask. Well, like, what’s the harm in doing that? So you get the part time Ah, and and I wanna ask you a question about that, But then just to continue the journey, and then eventually you leave One more question on the part time. 

Brandon: 

So, did you have, like, two envelopes? Hey, if you don’t give me part time, I leave. Or like we did. What was the plan? 

Brandon: 

I wish I could say I was even that prepared. I It’s actually kind of full circle moment because one of the partners that I have now was a great mentor for me during this whole process, in terms of, you know, ask, like, just ask. You never know unless you ask on dso he hits adjusted instead of going in there with an ultimatum. It more being a Let me just have a conversation with you about where and that, you know, this is this is what’s transpired. I’ve created this side hustle. It is busy enough that I cannot continue pursuing this job full time with full commitment. I would really like to stay here because, you know, I want to honor my commitments. I have clients, you know, and still feeling tied to this particular job, you know? Can I go part time? Is I even something you’d be willing to consider? A much to my surprise, you know, the managing partner said to me, Listen like I’m all you, So if you want to put together a proposal and sent it to me, I’m happy to like, have a further conversation with you about that. So it wasn’t even a, you know, a the pink or blue, my pick, which which pill you want to take it? It was more just, you know, having that conversation. And it’s really something that I know. You and I talked off line about this, but it’s something that that particular meeting is so pivotal for so many reasons. But in an entrepreneurial journey is so pivotal for so many reasons because we put ourselves in these boxes, right? This is who I am. This is my identity. This is my skill set. This is what I could do, and that’s it. And you know, when it comes to making money when it comes to doing things outside your comfort zone, when it comes to engaging in new businesses that you never thought were in your realm of expertise, the possibility entrepreneurship and surviving as an entrepreneur, at least in my experience, has been pushing the outside limits of those box that box. You know it not being traditional it not being what I thought it was going to look like. 

Whitney: 

And it not being necessarily within the confines of what societal norms are, right. So it it isn’t and never husband. Since I had that meeting, it never has been a situation of like, Oh, I’m a lawyer. So I’m just gonna go and do some entrepreneurial lawyer activities, right? Like it is all of these other things and all of these, you know, a little bit from your a little bit from here, a little bit from here, that are kind of mission lashed together that I never even realized were a possibility on DNA ever would have explored had I not had the Kony’s to actually go in, have this needing with the partner, you know, suggest something that, you know, was not traditional and more importantly, happened Be receptive to that. And it is such a testament that I think a lot of people miss in the entrepreneurial journey of just it’s gonna be painful, and it’s gonna be uncomfortable. And there’s gonna be those of your conversations where you’re like, Can I do this? But if you never ask your number gonna You’re never gonna pick up. So, you know, what’s the harm in asking? The worst he’s going to tell me was hit the road, all right? 

Whitney: 

And then you would have figured it out because you had a side hustle that you had already started. 

Whitney: 

That whether I was gonna pay the bills, not didn’t matter, was gonna get you enough money to basically live. 

Brandon: 

 and that one thing I’ll say about the boxes. What I tell people is you put yourself in that box at this moment and that is where you were. 

Brandon: 

But actually, you can choose at this very moment to step outside the box and change with that box. 

Brandon: 

Looks like, yeah, you can. 

Brandon: 

Your past is not Yes, it will shock people. Right. And people will tell you that’s not like you and me. That’s really not like, Yeah, well, you know, you as a lawyer, you’re really you normally dressed up like and you should expect that you just stepped outside the box. 

Brandon: 

But you can take control. You are in control. You just people don’t acknowledge or understand that they are to basically step outside that box and become someone different. And it’s okay to become someone different. 

Brandon: 

Like I think it so much. You have to get permission like, Hey, you can be someone different tomorrow. 

Brandon: 

It doesn’t matter. And when you become someone different people in your past life who are comfortable in that box, you will not be friends with you will not because it will change. 

Brandon: 

And in fact, you need that change to keep you going on that momentum because there’s always gonna be the person it was like, Oh, I don’t know when you might not work. 

Brandon: 

What? 

Brandon: 

That what? 

Brandon: 

That might not work. We all know it right. I call him Negative. 

Brandon: 

Nancy’s. Well, they’re more. They’re more comfortable with you being subpart because that is what they’re comfortable with, right? It’s who they know us. 

Whitney: 

And most of the people numbers everybody I want to say everybody is you’re being very Carol here. 

Brandon: 

Most people are projecting their own insecurities onto you to keep you in a box that makes them even more insecure and uncomfortable. 

Brandon: 

Yep, absolutely. 

Brandon: 

And that’s what’s going on here. 

Brandon: 

And and I’m not personally answers to be a professional at this stuff and even it’s hard for me to recognize it, right? 

Brandon: 

So sometimes you gotta think. Okay, this is what’s happening. But, I just wanted to say that because I think it’s an important, you know, really important point that you brought up that you had recognized and that a lot of listeners out there that I encounter, I don’t understand. 

Brandon: 

And the other part I just want to emphasize 100 times is that while you had the courage to make the journey, there was a transition. 

Brandon: 

So it wasn’t like you said, Hey, I’m gonna quit and I’ve got this idea. 

Brandon: 

I mean, you actually did have some sales. You were seeing what is possible, How big the business would become is. I don’t know. I’m not gonna ask you if you had a business plan, because it sound like it had been spying until everybody got have a business plan. But But you are at least trying it. And you knew that. So I wanna, what it did someone come knocking on your door to buy your house. 

Brandon: 

And that’s what prompted you to leave or was it the other way around? And and then what happened? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, we, So let’s see. My mom passed away in May. Mid May. 

Whitney: 

 I quit the job entirely shortly thereafter and in July. So two months later, we’d someone knocked on our door. We lived in a stupor. Family F, a family friendly neighborhood like everyone was always like I get. Why don’t you raise kids like it’s a weird you lived here, but this is the wrong neighborhood. 

Whitney: 

You else, so real turkey knocking on our door. It was right before school starting said, you know, is your house up for sale? And we said no. 

Whitney: 

And so she lasted me. We kind of thought, should our house be up for sale, maybe this is something we should be doing here. And, Chris, my husband had been, you know, a digital nomad in a prior life before we had met. So for him, he this was always like, yes, Let’s leave. Let’s travel. It’s still the things you want. Me attachment. Parenting are like, Why not on DSO? We contacted our realtor after that, and yeah, that’s not really fast. Like I think we’ve listed in mid July and was gone by beginning of August and we were out of there by end of August. So it all happened really fast, but it just felt very much like Okay, well, this is just the next step. Like there’s just kind of like what I said earlier. If the universe comes knocking, you better listen. Because how often do you get that opportunity? And, you know, Southern California housing was a great time to sell. We made some good money, you know, somebody. It kind of just all logically made sons. And, not to beat a dead horse, but much to your point earlier as well, that transition of what happened. 

Whitney: 

I would love to say that that business, that subscription box business made us millions of dollars, and that’s how we are now continuing to travel as digital nomads. But unfortunately it didn’t. And it has been, honestly, just the state of transition since that there hasn’t been stability, there hasn’t been consistency. It has been just a forever exploring and pivoting and starting new things that trying new things and I’m doing everything under the sun, you know, we probably more stability Now you know that we did a year ago, but It certainly has not been anything of, you know, I made this jump pond. The transition ended. It has just been a constant state of influx now, much fire. I’m Do you mean you know where digital nomads, I guess for the listeners. 

Whitney: 

Anybody who has a condom on we don’t have a home base now, so we don’t live anywhere. We have the intention of selling her house and traveling for a couple months. And that was, Let’s see, August of 2017. 

Whitney: 

So, no, when you when you sold your house and you’re like, Oh, and then we went Where Where you going? 

Whitney: 

For all the listeners I can I can attest to the fact that when he actually hasn’t home because before we got on the air, I said, Can you tell me where your home bases? 

Brandon: 

Because I when I do the intro, I want toe say, Oh, and what do you Christian from it? 

Brandon: 

And and there is very clear to me, after pressing with Whitney in a very lawyer like style that she is telling the truth. 

Brandon: 

There is no home base, but when that you sell your house and you say and we went to like what we owe, like. 

Brandon: 

And how did you think about that? 

Brandon: 

Your Yeah. 

Brandon: 

So we I had decided I wanted to do yoga. 

Whitney: 

Teacher training, after systems. 

Brandon: 

After my mom died, my mom was very spiritual. She was a breaking master, which is a whole other call. For another time, I grew up. It was very strong female presence, but she was a little Lou, and I think some of that rubbed off on I’m use. Well, it’s this wonderful gray zone and black white zone kind of mixed together, and my personality that comes up lovely ways every once in a while. 

Whitney: 

But you know that the yoga teacher training for me was something that I needed to degrees and needed to kind of soothe my soul after my mom had passed away. 

Whitney: 

So there was an amazing yoga studio in Southern California that I had felt really attached to. And I had signed up for the U A teacher training before we sold our house. So for the 1st 3 months, I guess it would have been yeah, until just after Thanksgiving. For the 1st 3 months, we rent a different Airbnb. He’s on the weekends, which is when the yoga teacher training was in Southern California, that I could finish my yoga teacher training Two of our friends, actually who lived up in Sausalito. 

Whitney: 

We’re going to travel to Italy for an extended period time. So we rented their house off of them and lived there during for the first portion of that. And then for the latter half of that, I can’t even remember where we were Drink Beach, just bouncing around to different air BVs in different locations. 

Whitney: 

By this point time, we sold pretty much all of our stuff. We had a small storage unit with, you know, close personal items and that sort of thing. But that was it. We sold our cars in Southern California, so we would just navigate, you know, park, you know, somewhere for up and nor Cal during the week and then use them when we were in so called on the weekends. 

Whitney: 

And then after I graduated from the yoga teacher training, we decided, let’s actually, like, do some traveling like this is what we said we were gonna do. We just got married. We got married in September of that year so we decided that would be kind of extended. Honeymoons rest. so we went to Europe for a couple months and just traveled around. Lived out of there being G’s. you know, way did the thing where you do three days a year, five base here, six days here. We had kind of a new business endeavor that my husband was getting involved with and needed some legal assistance. So I have been kind of involved in that. Andi, it was a very good lesson for us in learning that bouncing around with that three days day thing was not gonna work for us. we’re in Italy, and this is like totally first world problems. But we’re in Italy and had scheduled all of these blind tastings and food tours and all sorts of wonderful stuff on. We’re in Florence only for four days, and I was negotiating this deal on my husband’s behalf and because of the time change, I was having to stay up all night to do that. So sleep all day and I was missing all of these like wine tours and, like food tours. My husband was going to come home and saying, Like what? In a facing time, he had. 

Whitney: 

So they’re going first problems. That crime? No, but you’re you’re working on a business like you You just didn’t, like, check out. 

Whitney: 

And I just want the listeners to be clear that you’re working. 

Brandon: 

Not yet. None of this time was like downtime. We were literally thrown stuff at the wall and seeing what would stick. 

Whitney: 

It was a forever and has continued to be a forever and ever of, you know, how come we evolve? How can we get better? What else can you do? What is interesting? What’s exciting? and did you know? 

Whitney: 

Although did you kill the leggings business? Or do you still have this going on yet? 

Brandon: 

Still still live? with barely a pulse. It’s not a subscription box anymore. It’s a software system, a display in time. So we’ve actually converted, converted back into a soccer system that we license out. 

Whitney: 

So it was the was the, I know. You told me you do an ML m. Was that the leggings or is that something else? 

Brandon: 

Something else. 

Whitney: 

OK, so we’ll get to that, but or the leggings. How did how did you promote that cause a lot of entrepreneurs out there, you know, we’re talking about what you did in the transition, which is awesome. But actually that the nuts and bolts like, did you go on Instagram and where all these leggings? 

Brandon: 

And that adds, I taught fitness to for a long time. So I had a built in kind, that work of people who were enjoying activewear and living in it on. Did you have to say that location was a big A big consideration there tooth stuff? Orange County is lots of money, and lots of women who are interested in looking good and active were kind of taken us on a new life. A that point in time, you people were wearing it out, Not just to work out, but actually is their street apparel. 

Whitney: 

So it was all your stone it out. 

Whitney: 

Your I’m getting into the details here. 

Brandon: 

I know, but were you selling it out of your trunk? 

Brandon: 

No. So it was a subscription box. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with, like, stitch fix? No. Want double yet? So the idea waas user signed up for a monthly fee. You got a box then shipped to you every month. Andi eventually did over three months, never six months or whatever time increment that he wanted these boxes shipped to you. It usually had between six and 10 items in it. So liking sports, cross tank tops, all sorts of stuff. 

Whitney: 

And you are buying those. 

Brandon: 

You are buying these leggings, sports brawls and all sorts of stuff wholesale and packing them in your living room? 

Brandon: 

Yes, literally in our living. 

Brandon: 

Okay, there we go. 

Whitney: 

I thought this is how it’s happening, right? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, literally in our living room boots dropping like we’re funding this ourselves. There is no money at this point in time. 

Whitney: 

At inception, we eventually did get a small angel angel round, which was very helpful, obviously keeping the business afloat. 

Whitney: 

Andan. Yet these boxes would get sent out to these women who had ordered it, and they it was pay for what you keep. So you send back what you don’t want If you, you know, liked items, you have the convenience of trying them on in your home. And you just set back everything else. So he paid for what you got on. 

Whitney: 

And what are the like, What are the economics and that look like because you bought that whole. 

Brandon: 

So what was that challenging? Yeah, I saw you broke up because So I want I want the listeners to understand this. 

Brandon: 

That and I’m intimately familiar with the ships from subscription box. I want to say it was in the early, but I used to have a fly the month club for my fishing site in 1998. 

Brandon: 

So,  I’m not that old, but old enough to have done that. So I, you know, that’s challenging, right? Cause you have a shipping cost that comes back from economic standpoint. And what did you do with this inventory that they didn’t want or did most people not send things back? 

Brandon: 

No. 

Brandon: 

The return rate is huge on subscription boxes, especially wanted to pay for what you keep on. Majority of our items were expensive, you know, they are $15 leggings. 

Whitney: 

Their $50 things are $100 liking. So most people are not keeping more than one or two items per box if we’re lucky. 

Whitney: 

And it is what made us realize quickly that the money was not in this subscription box itself, but in the software that building, again, kind of. It’s funny. My mom always used to tease me that I had the horseshoe shut that my bum because really lucky things always seem to happen to me. I like to think that that’s more portrayal of hard work and right time, right place and good relationships and all those other things. But a lucky thing that happens of tow us. And this particular business was we connected with an amazing developer who ended up joining our founders team, also a female developer, which in that space there are very few females s Oh, that was fun for us to be able to work on a predominantly female team. 

Whitney: 

It was three female partners and my husband, Chris Andi. She was really interested in artificial intelligence and utilizing the about kind of our system to actually predict women’s preferences when it when it comes to activewear, you know, using kind of their past purchase history, information from social media, we started getting feedback from the people as to why they were returning some of the items that they were returning, it was color. Was it fit, you know, asking more pointed questions and are, If you take process for subscribers, you know, what is it that you’re looking for out of your activewear and then utilizing all of those aspects you know, street over them to predict what does them it would like then kind of going forward. 

Whitney: 

So certainly that helped with, you know, our ability to increase sales, because if you’re sending someone something they like, there was no Buckley to purchase it. But inventory was a huge issue for us and housing a lot of inventory was a huge was a huge issue for us, in addition to them having to restock new inventory for all people who then had already seen a number of those items received, You know, those items in their box. 

Whitney: 

So it became quickly apparent to us that the logistics of that was very complicated and something that was going to be more expensive than actually turning this back and system like what we created, what she built from the ground up, turning that into a product that then we could license to other subscription boxes because there were so many coughing up, you know, at that point in time, so we stop sending out boxes actually relatively quickly, which limited our exposure in terms of how much inventory we actually had. 

Whitney: 

Although I will still have a storage unit with, eso,  raised my hand to that. 

Whitney: 

I tell people I got pictures. I try to teach lessons about that. What I like like my journey and my brother journey. And that was very interesting. We’ve finally figured it out after literally Whitney. I think it was probably just a year ago that we emptied out. My mom’s arrived with our final inventory. But anyway, the what did you do with the returns? 

Brandon: 

Did you just stick it in a box? And that’s what’s in the storage unit now. Or did you? 

Brandon: 

Well, so the returns were never Warren, you know, they were still new with tags like You could try them on in your home. But the second that it was warned it was a situation where he purchased that now, so all of that inventory could be recycled to anyone else. You know who’s a new subscriber or had never seen that item but would have fallen within their preferences. So three idea was you a lot of the inventory that we have was just being circulated through our subscribers what their preferences were eventually got a little smarter, negotiated some better deals with some of wholesalers in terms of, you know, let us swap inventory with you. So if the inventory is only a month or two old, there’s no disincentive for you giving us new inventory. We can buy more from you that way and sell more, and you kind of do things that way. But, yeah, it was a big issue. I mean, and something that’s, you know, since we’ve we’ve mentored a few companies that are doing subscription boxes in a similar way, and it isn’t the challenge. You know, I think a lot of the companies that are doing well are big companies that have multiple lines of clothing that they’re doing and a lot of whom you’ve talked to you. They actually do. you know their lesson. Leftover inventory they sell to discount shops. So you take a hit on that when it comes to your bottom line. So my very humble opinion is that that is not where the money is. You know, I think that if you have the ability to flip that business into something more like what we did with that and usage that you could make more money there for a lot less headache. But it was a great learning experience and certainly something with starting from infancy. Packing boxes in our living room, quickly discontinuing that and then moving match of the technical end of things. 

Whitney: 

Reduction is a great big way because that artificial intelligence is really wet and catapulted into, you know, most of our endeavors out, not the A melon. That’s kind of the health and wellness sector. Still that, you know, that that is a big bulk of what we’re doing now with, you know, both find in the financial space in him and we go technologies. So, you know, thank goodness that we had that experience, even though I what a necessarily cold wind thinking. You know that experience because that that is really what got us interested and, you know, really started kind of that thirst for the knowledge about artificial intelligence and other ethnic learning. And how did you realize that in different spaces? 

Whitney: 

Yeah, I think it’s important. I tell my students Stop at some point you’re going. 

Brandon: 

Just need to stop listening to me and everyone else, and you’re going to have to do it. 

Brandon: 

Because once you start doing it, whether it’s like you did, which is Hamidou a subscription box. 

Brandon: 

I’m gonna promote it on Instagram. I’m gonna promoted to my classes, which I’m sure you did to the people that you taught, making them aware of it and or or I told you would just start selling on eBay. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, just start selling on Amazon. 

Brandon: 

Just go to Fiverr and make some stuff up. I mean, not make it up. 

Brandon: 

But, you know, if you’re a lawyer, you and were led to this, you can create a service to advise lawyers on something. If you’re whatever you do do you can create something to do that and just get start doing it. But have the mindset that this will not. 

Brandon: 

This will not be the You’re open to it being the end thing, but you don’t have your heart set on it. 

Brandon: 

That it is because the moment your heart set on, it is the moment that you’re basically dead. 

Brandon: 

I think it’s almost that I wish I could tell myself. 

Brandon: 

Plan to fail like just plan to feel because it’s gonna be It’s gonna explode. It’s gonna be terrible. There’s many awful things that happen. But what you learn from that is what’s going to be the next thing, right? Because it is we get so caught up in this I don’t want to do unless it’s perfect story don’t want to do unless it’s going to be successful. And so much of the time it is more so just just plan to feels plan that’s gonna be horrendous and that you’re gonna have to pivot for that. You’re going to have to learn how to do something else or that you’re going to use that feels that to them move into something else. Because, yeah, it’s that, you know, if you never start your never you’re never gonna start, there will be nothing ever. But if there is, there is so much I hate to use the word failure because its growth really right. But there is so much in the beginning, that is, and stills. Oh, that didn’t work. OK, I guess like onto the next thing we should you know, I thought that was it. But that’s cool. Like, what else can I do with this now on? 

Whitney: 

And I would, you know, I mean the failure sort of the buzzword, right? And especially here in Silicon Valley, and people use it. But But really, what I think it is is your customers. 

Brandon: 

You’re not really failing. What you’re doing is you’re getting corrected and informed of what the customers that you’re reaching actually want. 

Brandon: 

And if you start engaging and stop telling the customer what you think they need and there’s a little bit of there’s a little bit of that in the world, you know, Steve Jobs said, You can’t asking consumer what they want because they don’t even know what they want until they see it. 

Brandon: 

And there is absolutely some of that. 

Brandon: 

But there’s also some of it is. Give them something and then just listen to them. 

Brandon: 

Because if I say Hey, Wendy, is this does this work for you know, brain? It doesn’t work for me because of X y three reasons. 

Brandon: 

You just gave me three reasons to go build the product that you will buy, and that’s the key. 

Brandon: 

So let’s just recap for everybody listening. 

Brandon: 

So far, you someone offers you money for your house. You quit your job. You guys moved to year were not move. I don’t know what you call it. Digital nomads caught you. You downsize your crap, You go to Europe. You’re working on the business. It sounds like a this point. You’ve You’re not packing boxes. You pivot it into a model where your licensing the software and I don’t want to say that that’s on huh. 

Brandon: 

You know, nothings on auto, cause everything this whole passive income thing I think people need to understand passive income just means that you can make money when you’re not working. 

Brandon: 

But you need to work a lot to get the engine working. 

Brandon: 

 at the you have the software now sort of on this autos, so to speak thing. And you pivot into using that AI engine for other things. You’re in Italy, your negotiating deal for your husband. 

Brandon: 

And now we’re what happens because you’re not on the wine tours. 

Brandon: 

And this is so I don’t know, imagine you are making too many memories. 

Brandon: 

There. 

Brandon: 

You It was not a lot of joy happening in my foot that time. A lot of bitterness and resentful nous. 

Whitney: 

No, I mean, and And at that point in time, it was I wish I could even say that, you know, the the back end of our subscription box was going well. But even at that point, you know, we were still figuring out with our developer the best way to do that, trying to pitch the deal toe for people to actually license and subscribe to it, you know, putting our pitch stuck together for all of that stuff. So I mean, that wasn’t even really generating any income, so to speak. It was more just in the wings like this could potentially be really awesome once we get our stuck together to actually make it awesome and, you know, pitch it to be awesome. So my husband, at that point time had some, you know, pretty exciting things happen. He has been a trader of financial traitor for many, many, many years among his entrepreneurial endeavors. That’s kind of how he’s funded in his life. Ondo. He’d gotten in, you know, to some investments and some opportunities with, you know, kind of getting a head fund up and running. And so that was kind of this deal that we were working with in the crypto space which didn’t actually end up coming to fruition, Thank goodness looking back. But that’s kind of what you know what? That’s what we’re transitioning into. And I was playing a bigger role in that because there again, kind of this adoption of knowledge of artificial intelligence and learning. You know what, Cryptocurrency Waas? 

Whitney: 

Gosh, it was so much exciting stuff happening in terms of the legal realms of Cryptocurrency there, Solis. The legal realms of Cryptocurrency that was really fascinating to me is how maybe that’s the next thing. Maybe that’s the thing that’s gonna, you know, wake me up and make me excited. So from still traveling, still kind of doing all those things by that point time, he decided that this three day, five day thing wasn’t working, that we needed to, you know, post up for a few weeks at a time in whatever location you were in on. Since then, that’s been kind of our m o. So, you know, we try not to book out more than a month or two in advance.  my husband feels over committed if he has plans for tomorrow, and I get an anxiety attack if I don’t have, you know, the next 12 months of my life scheduled. So our balance is kind of 1 to 2 months out her compromise on, and we try to post up in the location anywhere between three and 63 in six weeks, just depending on where the location is, what the time zone is like. 

Whitney: 

How can kicking it? That would be with whatever projects were kind of looking on. So my husband, you know, was really excel ing and, you know, finance and using algorithmic trading and really getting involved in more on the investment side of things, which was great. What kind of left me then? You know, after this deal fell through with our hedge fund and my role with that was kind of done. It kind of left me west. Well, now what? You know, I’m I’m lawyers. It’s like e commerce company. We had subscription boxes, kind of. It’s like in the wings, but I don’t know that’s making you super excited or that anything’s happening with that. and so it was kind of this year of just exploration. You know. Yes. Okay, we’re traveling. We’re doing all the some things. Maybe I’ll start Blob.  that’s un been like I don’t really want to keep track of that. Like, Yeah, there’s lots of ways to make money. I got in some affiliate marketing started kind of doing, you know, things to make a few bucks here and there, which now the great lesson of just there’s so many ways, not just embassy trust, but there’s so many ways to make money if you look outside your realm of how you think money should be named But none of those were, for me super fulfilling or something that I was really passionate about. Our You know, there wasn’t everyone kept telling us you should, you know, start on instagram Page, and you could get all your travel paid for. Okay, Well, that’s a boatload of work, Teoh. You know, update that and keep recommendations coming. And all those things, and that’s not really an alignment either. With you know what is signaling to knees. So I kind of got back untether the health and wellness base. We’ve been traveling around Italy, and as I’m treating imagine the wine and pasta took its toll and I thought, How could I say fit? You know, I’m on the go on the road, so I wound up signing up for Beachbody, which is they have online workouts, online nutrition supplements, all sorts of stuff. I started having some pretty great success from that, especially while we were traveling, so I kind of that wolf. I could do this. I’m traveling like what’s everyone else’s excuse but really just started sharing about that. 

Whitney: 

And, you know, as we kind of talked about where were you sharing that on Instagram, Instagram and Facebook? 

Whitney: 

So just social media just were you. 

Brandon: 

I’m being specific just to give the listeners some idea because they hear these stories, and I want him to know that it’s not just posting and I’ll go back. 

Whitney: 

You know, you can build a great business if you are going to travel on right about that. But to your point, you gotta enjoy writing in documenting it. 

Brandon: 

Because and I live that with my fishing’s A back in the day and it is work, it will make that fun thing not necessary. You’re gonna have to change your mindset. I mean, I could I tell people PST, whatever it is, PTSD or wherever it is from from fishing because And people like, Oh, my God, you really feel sad for you. 

Brandon: 

But yeah, When I had that fishing thing, like I felt like I had a fish 200 days a year. 

Brandon: 

It got to the point where I’m catching the fish, trying to have fun. But I need to take a picture of the fish because that’s what you gotta dio And, you know, I really I really did. 

Brandon: 

I cut Burned out. I mean, I think I’m going fishing this Friday for a few days and would be the first time I went fishing in, like, six years for real. 

Brandon: 

Other than going with my nephew, who, you know, I love catching fish with him and haven’t seen him at fun, but really have not done any fishing for myself. So to speak is as being center. but I think people have to understand that you are going to have to change that, and it will change the experience, you know, it’s not Hey, we’re going to go to Italy and we’re gonna drink some wine, and then we’re gonna chill out at night and then gonna have a romantic time with my partner. 

Brandon: 

And we’re all it’s all gonna be love. 

Brandon: 

No, because you’re gonna thrown in your face. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, so But it’s possible. 

Whitney: 

And I know it’s possible, right? 

Brandon: 

You could continue. 

Whitney: 

And if that’s did you love blogging and capturing things and accounting for staff and being attached to your devices one for seven, like, maybe that is the job, you know, there are. 

Brandon: 

That is kind of I think the biggest lesson that I’ve learned is, and I know we talked about this offline already, but and there are so many ways for you to make money, and I don’t mean just me not to sound in a condescending way. 

Brandon: 

But if you I think if we abandon this idea that it needs to just be one thing like this is gonna be my $1,000,000 idea. 

Whitney: 

Like throw that out the window and have a few $10,000 a year ideas, right? Like it’s too. If you combine a bunch of different incomes together, it doesn’t ever take the fun out of stuff because much like this beach body experience for me, I didn’t get into it anticipating I was going to be a millionaire. I didn’t get into it planning for that to be a full time thing. It isn’t a full time thing, but it’s a nice income bomb every month. And it’s just me sharing the workouts that I’m doing or the supplements that I’m drinking or how I’m staying fully on the road and so selfishly has created more benefit for me. Then probably it has, even in terms of the financial wherewithal, right, like for me, that’s more important to stay healthy and be accountable and feel good and feel energized and and, you know, be connected with other humans as well, right, because we’re traveling all the time, so having that kind of face to face contact is great, but I think we get so caught up in this idea that you need to have just one business that’s generating all of your income for you, and I actually think it’s quite the opposite. I think that you are allocating your risk much more efficiently. If you’re having multiple streams of revenue that are each bringing in, you know, different sums of money and allowing you then to okay, this this one stream over here isn’t is interesting to me anymore, or in this season of life isn’t something that is as fulfilling for me or as possible for me. So let that one, you know, don’t abandon it, but let it kind of fall by the wayside for a second. And, you know, focus on those other streams. Air bracket. You. You know, for us that has what is enabled us to continue traveling and living this lifestyle and doing it in the fashion that we want to do it. You know, it It hasn’t been just one business or one revenue stream. It’s been trying out all of these different things figuring out what’s fulfilling for us And, you know, kind of continuing down that path of that particular at that particular revenue stream. 

Whitney: 

Well, I’m glad you said that, because I haven’t in my notes right here. From when we did talk off line and you talked about, you know, I never thought your comment was I never thought that you could make money in so many different ways. And I thought that was a good it was really a good epiphany, so to speak that you’re so trained that you’re gonna get this paycheck every two weeks and everything else feels uncomfortable. 

Brandon: 

The I was trying to defeat, completely honest with you over the last few days, as I was was thinking about us on this show, how I was going to balance what you said in some way for people because as an entrepreneur myself, for my effective, not affected my whole career, I always believe, have believed as not preneurs that you should have multiple streams of income on. 

Brandon: 

I think that is very important. 

Brandon: 

I was trying to think of how I was gonna answer. 

Brandon: 

I’m just gonna make this up on spot, really Didn’t get to a place because you had said, Hey, Chris And I have I mean, I have a number. 

Brandon: 

I thought you said 10 to 12 Island when you and I talked. 

Brandon: 

You said I have 10 to 12 streams, and I and I was thinking, How could I put that into context for people? 

Brandon: 

Because I think sometimes you can get you have to have this mindset that if you’re gonna try these things and you’re going to get him going that you’re gonna lean into the one that starts making money, and then you’re probably going to keep the two and three warm. 

Brandon: 

But because I always talk about when you this thing called absolute focus. 

Brandon: 

So if you do want to get to multiple six figures, you want to get the seven figures you want to get to 10 2030 40 $50 million like there’s this progression. 

Brandon: 

Because once you’re at in my experience, from all the things that I’ve done, once you’re at, like $200,000 it’s at in revenue and hopefully it’s profitable, cause if it’s how profitable after they, all other things, like people tell me they have revenue and profit different. 

Brandon: 

But, let’s just talk about $200,000. 

Brandon: 

You making a good margin Say it’s a media business or even reselling something. 

Brandon: 

You got 50. 

Brandon: 

So you’re making six figures is that at that point you have to decide if you’re gonna lean into it, because it will never, honestly, never. 

Brandon: 

Mama coming, it will rarely go from 200 to 10 million without you allocating almost all of your effort to get it there because 1,000,000,000 of businesses super hard. 

Brandon: 

And but it had the potential. 

Brandon: 

So what? 

Brandon: 

 another analogy is my brother and I got into the apparel business. 

Brandon: 

I’ll just say this real quick. 

Brandon: 

We decided that we’re gonna build one apparel brand. 

Brandon: 

It was a fishing apparel brand. 

Brandon: 

We said We’re gonna build one brand. That’s it. When he you couldn’t talk, talk us out of it, right, we were gonna build it. That’s the way it was going to be. And what we realized was was he started saying, Oh my God, the risk is so high. 

Brandon: 

It’s not happy, especially want Got all this inventory. We totally screw this up. 

Brandon: 

And then what we said was, let’s build 12 brands and people say, Well, that’s just crazy. Well, no, that’s what big companies dio right. 

Brandon: 

They build 12 brands. You put in enough effort that you can see which one sticks, the one that sticks you lean into and you take off. That’s exactly what happened. so I don’t know if you agree or disagree, but I think it’s an important distinction that you’ve made because when I say 10 to 12 different rev in revenue streams at any given time. 

Brandon: 

I don’t mean that we’ve started 10 to 12 different businesses. 

Whitney: 

That isn’t those aren’t separate 10 to 12 different entities. I think I think that there’s a fine line between business a d d and never actually putting enough eggs in your baskets versus putting too many eggs in. 

Whitney: 

I appreciate and I did not agree to pay you before this, but I’m thankful for you telling people get It’s so true. 

Brandon: 

And I guess what I and I should also profits that it makes you really angry when I tell them how I never realized how many ways there were to make money, and I appreciate that. There’s a lot of people out there struggling and not able to access, you know, those different revenue streams. So I I called by all that. I think I acknowledge all of that and and certainly yes, I’m coming up. This from a different, more, a different perspective. 

Whitney: 

But when I say different revenue streams, I think more so. What I mean is, you know, if you want toe, start blogging and you have a travel blawg, that’s great. 

Whitney: 

That isn’t necessarily one revenue. Straight, though your travel block can have ads. It can have affiliate marketing. It can have partnerships. It can have. You know, maybe you have an MLM business that you promote on your block, right? So suddenly you’re Block, which is just one business that you started has four different revenues. So I think that it’s an important distinction. And I’m glad you brought that up because it isn’t something where he just run 12 different businesses. That would be absolutely, astronomically insane. And I would not be sitting here talking to you today, but people but some of these entrepreneurs out there, they do say that there, like, I have 80 businesses I’m like, maybe like I’m I’m willing to acknowledge that Maybe maybe I can’t do that, but she is that that sounds like a shit ton of French, but it just seems overwhelming. 

Whitney: 

So I’m really grateful that you said that. 

Brandon: 

Let’s come back to your MLM and selling supplements. 

Brandon: 

You’re doing Beachbody. 

Brandon: 

You’re having results. Ah, another important thing, I think, is that you actually were using the product. 

Brandon: 

You documented the journey you’ve got before and after pictures which absolutely essential in this business model. 

Brandon: 

And are you Ah, you’re using Instagram and Facebook. 

Brandon: 

Are you hash tagging things to get followers what you’re if you’re willing to share just a little bit of the strategy? 

Brandon: 

 I think your intention is the most important part of this. 

Brandon: 

If you’re getting into something to make money, that’s gonna come through right away. 

Whitney: 

 so I think sharing the journey authentically is like number one. 

Whitney: 

And my motivation from the beginning has been selfishly my own response, not necessarily the money. So, that’s been kind of just a bonus for me, and then secondary to that is building the community we travel. So I don’t have, you know, classes that I can go take with the same people, everything. So it was important to me to build a community of people online where we had, you know, mutual accountability and kind of that online camaraderie of health and fitness. A swell, you know, in terms of buildings following. 

Whitney: 

Honestly, my biggest success rate has just been engagement. It’s slow, it’s a grind. But if you’re authentically engaging with people, that’s a great way. Teoh, you know, make sure that the people who are following you or people who actually give a crap about you, right? Like they’re not fake followers. I’m not doing the follow on Follow even the Hashtags, like, try that for a little while and yeah, I mean, you might get some followers better. Those really the people who want to be connected whether who are actually following your journey because they like through journey Or are they people who are following you because they understood and the group with game on social media and I want to be a part of that. So, you know, it’s funny. I was talking Teoh someone recently, and we had the full conversation about following and instagram following and Facebook following and all of these things because a lot of the different revenue streams that we have, you know, even if they’re small revenue streams, come off of social media on it is something where you know? 

Whitney: 

Sure. Yeah, you know, you get $10,000 on instagram and you get your slight about feature which might be nice for additional marketing perks, but really the engagement of your users and you know who it is that is actually Ewing. 

Whitney: 

Your content is what you need to hear more about not necessarily my for monetary. 

Brandon: 

It’s not necessarily those numbers, meaning if you have 200 followers. But 100 of those people are willing to buy something from you because they really care about you. Guess what you’re 200 followers is gonna be way more valuable than the person who is 20,000 followers. But one person is going to buy something from that, right? So I think it’s also that that authentic nous of just what is it that you’re using that platform for hiring, sharing that, but But really, what is your engagement with those people? You know, where those actually your people or are they just people who are on, you know, your social media, because they’re people who are trying to grow their social media as well. 

Whitney: 

When you say engagement to specifically for the listeners, that means that when they post, you asked that you probably set things up. I haven’t seen your and the land I Maybe it’s your personal I couldn’t tell because maybe was so authentic that good. 

Brandon: 

But, you ask a question, someone answers and you answer back. Is that what you mean by engagements? Basically talking to your audience and your comment about it’s a grind is really it just takes time, right? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, it is a grind. 

Whitney: 

It I You don’t apologize for that. And I think the listener should understand that. 

Brandon: 

You know, people ask me, like when I built that social media site for fishing, we did it one by one. 

Brandon: 

I mean, I answered everybody I got on there into this day, everybody wants the magic wand, and I think that’s it can be a grind. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

I mean, it really can be, but it’s not a grind in the very super negative way. 

Brandon: 

Other than sometimes it just you got to do something Don’t feel like doing because ultimately, it is something that you’re good at and that you’re having results and does,  help with accountability when I think it goes back to that, you know, Is it fulfilling right like it’s they’re going there so many ways that you could make money if you’re willing to look outside of your box. 

Brandon: 

But not all of them are gonna feel awesome about all of them are gonna be ways that are fulfilling to you to make money. 

Brandon: 

So how sustainable. 

Brandon: 

Is that right? 

Whitney: 

Extreme, too, right? If it’s if it’s something where you start a business and it’s easy for you to make six figures. Great. But if you hate it, how long can you actually do that for? Right? it kind of his action apple Tim Ferriss is your for great. Like creating revenue streams for yourself that are automated and that are, you know, process heavy that you can delegate out to somebody else so that you can work four hours of he con stuff you don’t necessarily like, but maybe generating income for yourself sequence final, your other times Lucky, really enjoyed, And for us, it’s also been discovering you know, where those two circles meet, you know? 

Whitney: 

So how can we make money that is also fulfilling right, Where where is that intersection and how can he acquire more revenue streams that are in that intersection? 

Whitney: 

You know, that is fulfilling and lucrative, because that that for us is more sustainable and on the so you’re engaging with your current people by answering them and your meeting incredible people alone the way probably people that you could visit in these places that you’re going, at least from my experience, right? 

Whitney: 

Ah, they that you can do this. And do you have a rule that you say I’m gonna post once a day, twice a day? 

Brandon: 

I’m going to a story a day. Do you have any of that structure in this? 

Brandon: 

You know, I did for a long time on, But to be totally honest with you, it just started feeling more like a job, unless up on tic TOC. so I kind of abandoned ship for that. I just said, you know, this is not what is my purpose in Jimmy. You know, if my purpose were I want to be a millionaire in this, you know, personal brand that I started then my process might be a bit different. My vision is just a little different for me. It’s sharing authentically what we’re doing, living like living out loud, encouraging other people to do that on def. I can make money doing not awesome, like, let me let me figure out what those different ways to do that are. But it’s I’m probably less traditional in that sense and that I just don’t The structure and the routine and the thing that usually would feel so comfortable to me. 

Whitney: 

Just felt started feeling really onerous and really like it wasn’t authentic anymore. It wasn’t a part of, you know, my journey and why I was doing it wasn’t attached to my wife at all, so I haven’t really been doing that, but I definitely think consistency is a big portion of growing, and he followed him. 

Whitney: 

You’re not consistent about it, man. That Albert, that will take you down Well, and because of the, diving just a little bit just for another minute into the MLM. 

Whitney: 

Because what I try to tell people is MLM is no different than buying something from wholesale and then reselling it, like at the crux of it. 

Brandon: 

The only difference is the M l l m l. 

Brandon: 

A tongue twister,  haven’t had enough gas me and I don’t know, but,  they just want you to keep buying inventory, and I actually really not a big fan of that model because I think it forces inventory on the very people that may or may not sell it. 

Brandon: 

But, or you can sell it wears on a wholesale model. 

Brandon: 

You have a little bit more control, which you shared with your,  your box. But this this engagement in that model that you have has allowed you not only to sell direct, you correct me. It’s a question. Sell direct, but also gain the people under you that ultimately you’re trying to get work or you that then hits you on that stair stepping process, right? 

Brandon: 

Absolutely. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, it’s a yeah, it’s I mean, it’s it’s funny. 

Brandon: 

Anyone’s get such a bad rap, right? 

Brandon: 

Because it is, you know, other pyramid schemes. They dress like you’re living under someone else and you’ll never be successful, is them. And really, it’s no different than a professional environment. You have a boss, Babcock says. A sales quota. You have a sales quota at boss gets promoted. If you do well like it seeks axing structure just, you know, different on diamond. 

Whitney: 

Personally, not very well versed in other m ls because I’ve never done any of the other ones I know for Beachbody like we don’t have any inventory, which is great, like literally All it is is I have a customer site. 

Whitney: 

People go there If they buy stuff, I get credit for it. If they don’t I don’t have was anything like there’s nothing. There’s no part of it that is, you know, onerous in any way in terms of us, you know, he’d be located any in any direction on day, at least for me. I kind of abandoned this idea of it eats to look and sound a certain way by this certain date. So I’m probably the worst. I always joke, I’m the worst milliner ever because they just don’t. I don’t operate my business that way. But I actually think it’s what’s made me more successful in the business because it’s allowed me to detach from this sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. Let me push. You know you have to build come, coach, and you have to do all these things right. Like, Hey, I like the products to be like the products that school trying out. If you don’t return, like it’s almost enough My back. I would I would rather somebody you know, actually, the health and wellness benefits of you know that particular your product is supposed to Haiti for pushing some sort of product on them. hopefully no one. I’ve interrupted with has felt that way. But from an engagement standpoint, it is, you know, absolutely just got, you know, sharing authentically with people. If I try something, I don’t like it, then Hey, you mean like it? But that’s not my jam. So try it. But like, that’s not that’s not who I am. That’s not what I like. That’s, you know, not my thing. but yeah, that that authentic engagement. I think it’s something that lost on a lot of people now. And we live in a world where there are lots engaging and liking and commenting, you doing all the things in your instagram pools and stories. And, you know, people writing five paragraph novel captions on like a picture of the back of their heads or, you know, whatever. I’m drived on that in the past two. But you know, it is it’s It’s that What are you sharing? And is that enough authentic representation of what you’re actually going through, Whether that be good or bad,  and also kind of dealing with them the repercussions that come from that, you know, my family thinks I’m nuts for how much I share on social media people are, you know, need in the morning with my coffee talk and you know, no makeup and, you know, right out of bed, like, Hey, listen, this is what I look like in the morning. I’m not gonna try Teoh make that anymore pretty for anyone. So I think it is just that we, as humans are, are always looking for that authentic engagement. And if you can somehow contact with your users or your followers on social media that way, I think that’s the best way to total hopes. L Because you’re not selling that point in time, right? You’re connecting. 

Whitney: 

And a really important point is is you whenever it fast and we skipped over. 

Brandon: 

But the algorithm on these platforms care and what they really are ultimately doing is looking for the engagement because that’s a trigger that that’s actually an important post. 

Brandon: 

No, by you not buying followers or not doing this or not doing that and have an actual engagement. 

Brandon: 

In fact, within your in your audience that you do have, they are seeing your posts there. 

Brandon: 

The algorithm is is promoting it, and it’s riel, and you’re not having to trick it. 

Brandon: 

And, you know, I want to say that that’s the I think you do have to trick the hack the algorithm in the early days of any of these things to sort of get that wheel spinning from, But eventually the goal you’ve got to You’ve gotta have authenticity in real stuff in there all along the way, because eventually don’t catch up to you. and I think, you know, everybody’s impressed when they say the person with five million followers of 1.3 million followers or whatever it is and after his followers aren’t buying anything, if not more right. 

Brandon: 

And I’m not. I think this is true for the men and the women. You see guys who work out and you see women who work out cause I’m big fitness guy and do bodybuilding. I sort of been my life. I mean, I grew up with Arnold Schwarzenegger as like, my that was that was it I even in college, I have, ah, full body poster of him hanging in my room like it was just something for me. 

Brandon: 

That fitness has always been like that. 

Brandon: 

 how long enough I had a dreamers with him last night hanging out with her, which is just really Yeah, right. 

Brandon: 

 the is they have all these followers, but they are using hashtags. 

Brandon: 

And, you know, if you have a good body on and I don’t think it’s a bad thing, people are gonna follow you because they want to look at you. Great. So if you’re a woman and you do that and you hashtagged again of a lot of guys whether that the guys are gonna buy from you, I am not really sure that’s why they are following you. And likewise for the women, right? They’re probably not following the hot guy necessarily, because use promoting some supplement. So the question and then if you don’t have that engagement that hurt you on another algorithm because you have all these dollars who aren’t doing this. 

Brandon: 

 so I just want to mention that as, ah, sort of in the in the mechanics of this how it works, You have the MLM. 

Brandon: 

You still have that you’re still doing that. We’ve been going a really long time, and this is an exciting story. Where are you’re still doing the MLM? 

Brandon: 

I mean cause I think we’re getting towards where you are right now. 

Brandon: 

Whatever New Year’s Eve 2000 e mean you’re doing. Mm, You’re trying. So are you trying some other things as well? 

Brandon: 

Yes. The MLM is just one of those 10 to 12 revenue streams at this point in time, and they’re again not not a $1,000,000 business out something I’m ever planning to be a $1,000,000 business it isn’t. You know, all my eggs or not in that one basket, the last year is that have been really occupied with a totally new endeavor which has kind of dropped in my lap in a way that I never thought it would, but has been a very natural progression with this law and then begin to kind of that retail ai space learning about ai and moving into Cryptocurrency, educating myself about Hansel technology on. And then you kind of just my husband and working with him on a number of different things and his financial of arrhythmic treating kind of space, I quickly realized, like others, there’s a lot of application with that type of technology and artificial intelligence for legal use. Lawyers air seemingly no one is a bit behind the times when it comes to adoption of specifically technology. Andi. Ironically, something that I saw as a young lawyer was, you know, Hey, I’m proficient if not printing out every email, and that’s like a confidence thing here, like, why is that? You know, im a trial, and I can pull up a pdf really quick and other people can’t. Why is that right? So, it was easy to excel in that space and look kind of like a rock star. So, I got, you know, brought in with a good lesson and not burning your bridges when you also leave whatever it is that you’re transitioning out of. But I got brought in with a partner that I used to work within the law firm. Also very tech savvy and kind of in the technology space. 

Whitney: 

He had a fortune, a Fortune 50 client who was interested in kind of engaging in some legal technology that was really less legal technology and more just organization of data, which I had become very familiar with with my experience in our retail space. and so I said, you know, yeah, that that could be kind of interesting, and I wouldn’t mind working with a client like that. You know, it’s a little easier to get stuff done when you have a little bit more money to play with with a bigger planet. so become started working on this project and quickly realized that there was a really big need in the real space for not only education with legal technology but, you know, really basic skill sets for, you know, lawyers and learning how to properly utilize the tools that they already have on and then taking that one step further with, you know, these gold mines of data that not only law firms but also big companies air sitting on in terms of the data that exists within their own companies, right? Like, the lawyer, any lawyers, other listening will know. But a lot of law firms pay for services to search like settlement and verdict bike historical data, and they’ll pay for services to give them information about jury data and judges and all sorts of things before you go to child. When a lot of times those companies are already sitting on that information, right, if you’re your Fortune 100 company and you’re getting sued in your vehicle. Budget is massive. You already have all of the historical that it within your law firms that you used Teoh letting those cases. It’s a matter of organizing that data and making it usable for you. So there’s just a lot of room for interesting, interesting things in that space. And then using that as kind of a predictive model as well, you know, how can you use that data issue, really, that go forward and, you know, potentially reduce your legal spend or reduce your legal exposure right at the onset with You know, that historical data that you have so kind of a two part company that we’ve established now with a multitude of different revenue streams within it. 

Whitney: 

But you know, the consulting end of things where we actually take on projects for companies in law firms now on health, you know, go in and actually analyze data and be combined data and figure out how to use that data for good, and then the education space. So how is it because we can actually make the legal industry better and more efficient in terms of technology, you know, allowing lawyers to really understand at a very elementary level what tools exist and how to utilize them, not only to make themselves more efficient and, you know, needed in the space, but also for avoiding. 

Whitney: 

Now practice with your clients who are expecting that you, you know, know how to turn on your computer and use PowerPoint and excel and word and all those good things. 

Whitney: 

Well, that’s awesome, because you really come full circle and now are making money off of the legal profession of which, you know well, what lesson for everyone is is that just because you leave the profession doesn’t mean that you can’t make money off of that industry. 

Whitney: 

In fact, ironically, what I found is your worth more when you leave. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Then you were. 

Brandon: 

So now you sound like you’re putting some edges around. What effectively becomes a consulting services company, which you will ultimately build some courses or some things around training programs that they can buy? 

Brandon: 

 from you. Is that sort of the plan? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, absolutely. So we’re already consulting that that is alive and well exists. And happy Teoh talk with anyone who wants to learn more about that. The education materials were we’ve actually already gotten underway on, so we’re hoping to launch those in the next couple months. Our first course is actually all about, artificial intelligence and the law. It’s a kind of hot topic issue and something that, for whatever reason, especially professionals, not just lawyers but doctors, accountants you know, anyone who really holds a professional license. It seems to be a really scary subject for a lot of people, which is unfortunate because there are so many incredible uses for it, and it is already be used in so many incredible ways in all of those industries that I think just a really basic understanding of what it is. We’ll kind of quashed some of that fear that a lot of people have. So we’re already building that horse, like I said, hoping to have it approved in the next couple months and bonus for any lawyers. This thing up there were hoping to get it all, Seeley approved, so that it can go towards your ongoing mandatory education. 

Whitney: 

Teoh. I ask you about that because that’s really important. Is is that you because you know the industry. So Well, you know what lawyers and need to get as would an accountant or someone else. And if you can get those things approved, and all of a sudden it becomes a different product, that thing just Ah, general education. 

Brandon: 

That sounds really exciting. I actually yeah. I mean, and you’re doing this remotely, right? 

Brandon: 

All of it remotely. 

Whitney: 

Yeah. So do you from a, like mechanics? Do you get on the zoom call like this or Yeah, Zoom is, you know, a great, great great teacher. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, or whatever. 

Whitney: 

I don’t wanna you zoom. 

Brandon: 

So you totally actually our tool of choice. we use the trouble aboard for task management. So literally, everything is kind of just combined on tremolo. Although someone tell me about a great new tool where you can get everyone into a chat on some sort of app and then from the Czech anarchy, create tasks from each of the different changes that I don’t know what we I used Jerrod. 

Whitney: 

Hello, Asana. What is it? 

Brandon: 

And come metrics. 

Whitney: 

I think it’s ok. I mean, there’s there’s now just you use Trela for each client or to use an internally to manage your business. 

Brandon: 

All of the enough. It will be about yet. So we have, like a teen. Trouble aboard were being damaged. We do eat the sprints. you know. So we need over zoom once a week we talk about, you know? Okay, let’s look back. Let’s look, President. Let’s look forward. What? Tests have been done with blocked? Who needs to do what? From zoning, Which tasks of, you know, kind of general kind of big picture items on Ben for each project that we’re doing yet. We’ve got a trail aboard, but also, you know, summarizes from start all the way through completion. Okay. What kind of time frame are we looking at? What vendors do we need to use? 

Whitney: 

You know, we do this all in house. Are we sending this out to someone? You know what contracts do we need in place? What sort of capital do we need to make sure? Has the budget been sent to the client? Everything from start to finish kind of goes on those projects specific. Cantrell aboards, Bank of a team of contractors helping your your are you have a partner or are the so I’ve got a partner. 

Whitney: 

I’ve got a partner and then we have a whole host of contractors that we utilize, depending on what the project is. 

Brandon: 

Just from a time efficiency standpoint, it doesn’t make sense for me to be ingesting data. 

Whitney: 

Know someone a lot less to do that. But the right s Oh, yeah. And you know, then, of course, creating the quality assurance processes, the going to place. And when you’re dealing with anything legal wise, there’s a big security issue that comes into place with a lot of fat. So we were for the number of different banners to make sure it’s secure, he wrapped up. 

Whitney: 

I’m still a client state, done everything kind of under the sun. 

Whitney: 

Sometimes that entails, you know, to a specific location to meet with those clients. 

Whitney: 

Teoh, you know, make sure that everyone is almost eight board other times. 

Whitney: 

So we’re flexible on how it looks and sounds. But for the most part, it’s all done from all over the world. 

Whitney: 

That’s awesome. and I think the story that I recognize here is that you’re in a law firm. 

Brandon: 

You hate the job used to start a side hustle that a subscription box. 

Brandon: 

Turns out that the subscription box business you realize the values in the software, and if the software can predict something around a I as a topic, you wound your way through Some other things at all. 

Brandon: 

Involve algorithms, which all of our life all of our lives are now, regardless of what you think, If you have a new car, you’re running on an algorithm. 

Brandon: 

Whether that’s a electric car, self driving car, something else and come full circle. 

Brandon: 

Come back to the industry that you’ve left teaching them about something that you discovered because you started a side hustle futile a year ago, I would be sitting here. 

Brandon: 

I would have laughed at you like it’s just It was so funny. 

Brandon: 

I was giving a presentation recently actually about AI and the law, and I was rehearsing in front of my husband because I’m a type and I like to be better prepared. 

Brandon: 

And, you know, he was just kind of chuckling to himself. He was like, Could you have thought five years ago that you would be talking about artificial in touch the law and it really is. It’s comical because it’s stress. It’s such a testament to you just never know where that half is going to take you and your initial plan or side hustle may not be the thing, but gosh, like I would have never gotten to where I am today without, you know, steps. Eight. Breezy in between. 

Whitney: 

And I think it’s everything happens for a reason. And you probably had no idea when you doing this packing boxes in your living room and getting returns that, you know this AI thing turns into it. 

Brandon: 

So I think everyone used to recognize And you’re a great story that to show that sometimes we just don’t know at that moment. But you just gotta be open to that. 

Brandon: 

Something will come. And I think part of that belief, whether I don’t know whether you manifest hat or you just I think you just keep going forward, at least in my life is just then just keep going forward and discovering what tomorrow, what will, what will happen either later, today or tomorrow that reveals itself and then be aware? Just be it. You know I don’t want to harp on this. Everyone’s like will be present. 

Brandon: 

Just be human. Yeah. Is that just be human. So what that means is just recognize some stuff when you see in front of you and have you not got always recognize it. But, you know, I don’t think it Like I said, you want to be this and we’ll do you present, cause if you’re just present all the time, you’re not looking to the future of my You know, you gotta look a little bit in the future, which I’m gonna get to, because in the future in May, your guys are gonna have a baby. So it’s no. 

Brandon: 

So, you know, if you’re learning the digital nomad and you’re not looking towards, we’re gonna have a baby because that will have implications. It doesn’t mean that you can’t, be a digital nomad without cause. I know some friends who have done it. What is your in Christmas plan? 

Brandon: 

Given this life event, that will be a pivotal moment. 

Brandon: 

Yes. so we, have been cognisant of listening to those who have gone before us in this experience. 

Whitney: 

We like to think that we will pick up being digital nomads right after baby’s born, but, there again, those who are a little wiser and have had the experience of child rearing have said, you know, we could give yourselves a little bit of a buffer, just in case you need some time to adapt to new human being involved in the mix of things. 

Whitney: 

But, we’ve decided, actually, that we are going to take Arizona. We love the location.  mountains and heat are two of our favorite things and actually one of the lowest C section rates in the country. So that was appealing for me. but we are moving to Arizona, actually, Probably in step. You, Larry, we’re doing Meg. So, hoping to kind of hunker down and February we’ve decided we’re not gonna buy anything. We’re just gonna rent. We are going to try to get into at least one house so that we’re not moving from her gov Well, were, you know, in labor and doing all sorts of crazy things. But we’re gonna start. Just look, the short term lease, see, kind of how it goes may be able being appealing thing for us to have a whole base there after just that kind of a jump plea, but ideally, you’d like to continue traveling. I guess we’ll just have to see kind of how that all transpires once we have another little dependent human involved. Commitment? Well, what city and we’re in? It were into music the next, the next cool. 

Whitney: 

Yeah, I think this is a cool, and then Phoenix and Scottsdale on that whole area is Really? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I know. 

Brandon: 

We love it. There will be a good adventure. We’ve never lived there. So another new experience. Making memories and making memories. 

Whitney: 

 and so the plan is you’re gonna you’re you are gonna lean into. I think the name of is pollinate legal dot com, right? 

Brandon: 

Yeah. It’s following a legal legal technology operations. What is the short pollinate legal dot com is our That’s where they confined. 

Whitney: 

You know, that’s what you confined, Confined. 

Brandon: 

If if your lawyer out there listening or anybody in the legal profession I shouldn’t say just a lawyer cause legal professions got tons of people now working in it. 

Whitney: 

You confined Whitney and her consulting business and service business at pollinate legal dot com. 

Brandon: 

And there’s a formal in there that they weigh email, subscribe, do all the things even reach out to us that way or just subscribe for general news. 

Brandon: 

We’re kind of just in the process of getting all of our presence online up and up and going, so hoping to get, you know, like, didn’t teach up and more kind of information out there into the world about what it is that we’re doing. 

Brandon: 

I like to say once things settled down, but it seems things never, ever settle down for purposes of making sure you have all of your things done. 

Brandon: 

But yet we’re growing. 

Whitney: 

So just kind of getting up and running and find us there and subscriber or reach out to us on the website. 

Whitney: 

That’s awesome. 

Whitney: 

And I think the last thing I’ll leave people with is Winnie does not have this business all together. She didn’t wait until she had the linked in page until she had, Like, I mean I mean, you’re laughing, right? But if people say to me, I can’t get started because, well, I’ve got to have a web page. I’ve gotta have this. I gotta have that. 

Brandon: 

Well, I’m not really sure that you need any of that crap. what you need is a customer that you have a problem that you’re solving for someone that will pay you. And here’s the good news. Newsflash for everyone. 

Brandon: 

The the what? 

Brandon: 

Technical steps to incorporate to build a LinkedIn page are well known. Yeah, that’s not the problem. 

Brandon: 

And if not, there’s Google. Like the majority of the stuff I learned now has been on YouTube or Google. 

Whitney: 

So so when you just real quick when you got your first customer, you weren’t incorporated. Is that right? 

Brandon: 

No. Incorporated, not even think, right. Thank you. Thank you. 

Brandon: 

Quickly thereafter from a legal perspective. But that’s only because we’re lawyers. 

Whitney: 

Yeah, I mean, I think I mean, I don’t think it’s really I mean, because your lawyers, you recognize it, But I think for everyone I tell him, Yeah, when you start getting customers, where where you’re putting your personal assets at risk, it’s time to put a wall up between you and those personal assets. 

Brandon: 

That’s that’s really what it is. And but, you know, it doesn’t mean on your first customer, necessarily. 

Brandon: 

I mean, maybe you get three or four, cause for all we know, that was a good relationship. Someone pays you because they like you. It doesn’t turn into a business than we’ve incorporated. We’ve got this resident agent we got all this stuff comes along with it. 

Brandon: 

So, but that’s awesome. I’m really excited for you. I know that that business is going to do Well, I hate to say I know, but I am pretty sure it’s going to do Well, your timing is really good. 

Brandon: 

 and your knowledge of the professions I just want to say thank you so much for being on here and being vulnerable and really telling the story of which it takes a lot of courage to go on and say things that, you normally might not say in public just because it’s out of it’s outside the box. 

Brandon: 

Eso Thank you for doing that. 

Brandon: 

I appreciate that. 

Brandon: 

Thanks for having me. 

Brandon: 

This was a lot of fun. 

Whitney: 

We will have you back after you have a baby and give you a few months to settle. 

Brandon: 

Figure out if you’re still in Arizona or you’ve moved somewhere else. So thank you so much with me. 

Brandon: 

I’m great. Thank you. 

Whitney: 

Perfect. Thank you. 

Brandon: 

You there? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, Every summer. 

Whitney: 

Corning. 

Brandon: 

Oh, yeah. 

Brandon: 

You didn’t ask me Your three pts. 

Whitney: 

Oh, I’ll keep recording. 

Brandon: 

Ah, yeah. 

Brandon: 

So, everybody, we’re back. 

Brandon: 

Because Whitney, in her in her awesomeness of being a lawyer and making notes that should be made, reminded me that I didn’t ask my three HPTs. 

Brandon: 

And I am not going to get off the call without doing that. 

Brandon: 

The Whitney thank you for pointing out that I did not go through my checklist when we were wrapping up. but thank you for catching it. 

Brandon: 

So three HPT’s high percentage tips for all of our listeners out there listening that you would give having just all the experience you have and what you found from being a true digital nomad. 

Brandon: 

Sure. 

Whitney: 

Yeah, you can. You can’t let things like that side. If I have notes that I’m going to say something, I’m making sure that we’re covered. Hostile? No. 

Whitney: 

So grateful for that. Thank you. 

Brandon: 

 s O the three. The three big things that I just think are in Puritan for life success, human success, business success, any of the success? number one is just fill your cup. 

Whitney: 

I think that so many people get into the entrepreneurial journey. They do that full struggle porn thing. And really, it takes a toll on only your body but your mental health. And I think that if you’re not recharging every day by filling your cup, whether that is wellness, whether that’s nutrition within that’s water. Sleep finds that meditation breast any of those things. Any and all of those things.  you can pour from an empty cup. So I think filling your cup is first and foremost. No matter what path in life that you’re doing. I think that’s number one for sure on number two and this this phrase I almost said it during the call to, but I thought I’d save it for For now, this race comes from a good friend of mine. 

Whitney: 

I wish I could take credit for it, but it’s really just embracing the struggle. I think that we as humans have this tendency to want to live in comfort zones and want to be always in a place of dressed. Everything’s hunky dorey and status quo, and I think that some real value and growth comes from embracing the hard times and embracing and really making that a part of, not only your journey But, the idea that it’s not necessarily going to be easy and that you can still find joy within that journey and the last h p t that I have Haas to do with identifying whether or not you’re in hustle or your in slope Andi think that that speaks a little bit, too, whether or not you’re being just busy, which I would identify more in the hustle, or whether you’re actually doing things to move the needle forward, which I had done to five more as slow Andi think there’s a big difference between two. 

Whitney: 

I think making sure that you’re setting your sights on some really tangible projects and goals and then creating an actual step by step business plan, as Brandon will probably tell you, but creating a step by step businessman for yourself. 

Whitney: 

Half we would accomplish those things and then moving the needle in some way every single day instead of just being a taskmaster so that you are in that state of flow instead of just constant state of hustle. 

Whitney: 

 I was a myself proclaimed recovering taskmaster myself, so I think making sure that you’re actually doing some steps every day to move the needle forward to whatever your dreams are to sound too Dreaming big in all of that good stuff. 

Whitney: 

But I think making sure that you’re actually existing in that state of flow and not just in that state of vessel it’s super important. 

Whitney: 

So was it right? Three h cooties. 

Whitney: 

I’m so grateful that,  for all the listeners we way wrapped up, which I’m not gonna edit this and and when he’s looking at me because we’re on a zoom call and she’s like, I’m like, we’re done. She’s like, Are we still recording? I started the turn it off because I was worried that you might, like, say something that I was like OK, like you didn’t ask me three TC. 

Brandon: 

 I am really grateful cause those are awesome. 

Brandon: 

And, I think they’re absolutely all true. And and the all three are equally important. 

Brandon: 

I can relate to the hustle on the flow I think you’ve got and be able to, you know well, the last thing your last H P. 

Brandon: 

T. Is really important because if you don’t get something that moves it, you do not have to move 10% of day, you could move half a percent. 

Brandon: 

You just gotta move forward. Otherwise, you go to bed at night not feeling like you accomplish something, which then raises your anxiety, which then raises. I mean, you and I probably we’re both passion about that launch into, like, another three, our podcast on how your cortisol levels increase, and then how that turns into a bad situation. 

Brandon: 

And I doubt it, but really important. 

Brandon: 

And those were great tips. 

Brandon: 

And thank you so much. E list. I pride myself on having these checklists. And I didn’t I didn’t have that. There’s such a good you shared so much. And I’m so grateful for it. I didn’t think about this, but those were awesome. So thank you so much. Good luck with you and Kris with your baby in May. I’m coming across the country in a in A in a jeep that I haven’t built, which was my first jeep. And, I have to stop to see you guys. Unless you’ve already moved and you’re in Mexico, Europe, Australia, or somewhere else, you can come visit us, and we always have a guest room, no matter what Our Airbnb situation is so you’re always welcome. 

Brandon: 

Awesome. 

Whitney: 

All right, let me thank you so much. 

Brandon: 

Thank you, Brandon. 

Whitney: 

Yeah. Thank you for doing that. Is there anything else that I forgot? The fighting, right? 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

I need to say them I before I turn this recording. 

Whitney: 

I was so worried. I was like, God, what? Did I say this poorly? I thought that’s what Really? Well, well, and I gonna m is gonna be bad. 

Brandon: 

It’s on

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